Rescue Border Collies - afraid of being in car

[masterice]

I love Border Collies as life is a constant fun battle of wits. (I keep my tools locked away just incase one of them develops an opposable thumb and i come home to find all the locks changed.)

Anyway my latest little guy is a 4 year old tri colour BC called MIST.
His history is quite fraught and he has more than a few behavioural problems.

The one which is causing me the greatest loss of sleep is that I cannot find a way of breaking his fear of being inside a car or even just climbing in and sitting in one.
When I got him I was told he hated cars and this is somewhat of an understatement as the journey home clearly proved with considerable damage done to the interior trim.

However he has no problem walking round and passed parked cars or being passed by moving ones.
I can open the car doors and he will stay by my side and shows no sign of fear.
However nothing will induce him to enter the car. I have tried getting him to jump in after treats or his tennis ball but he just sits and looks at me with a "Yeah! Right!" look on his face.
I have entered one side and out the other and called him to follow me but he refuses.
I have tried feeding him in the car.
I got him a travel cage which he's more than happy to get in while it's in the yard or the house but wont go near in the car.
I have tried using a step up box for him.
I have made a ramp for him which he has no problems with nor fear of climbing up and down but he will not do more than reach his front paws in and try to reach any treat I may be cajoling him with.
I have tried the test of wills in which I sat in the car for 40 minutes while he dozed gently in the sun and steadfastly refused to climb in.
All my other dogs have been car-happy but that was from puppyhood. This little guy obviously has something in his head which I need to reprogram.

I'm wondering if anyone else out there has had a border collie (or any other breed come to that) who's had this apparent fear and I wonder how did you get round it.

Slim Haines

[skunkstripe]

Poor Mist! Rescues always seem to bring a bag of issues with them, but with love and patience, most can be overcome. Something awful must have happened to him in a car and he is not about to let it happen again.
Surely there is a way to help him get over his fear, although it certainly sounds like you have been doing everything I would have suggested! Hopefully someone will make a suggestion that you have not thought of!

[MoJo]

I have 2 rescued border collies (Well, they live out on the acreage with my parents now, but they are still my luvly furbabies) and I was blessed with them when they were very young. Just little cotton balls with toes sticking out of them. One of them is timid, and the other is hyper and loves to lick... But the weird thing is that the timid one has no fear of cars, but the hyper one does.

You see-- my girlies were thrown out the window of a truck as it barrelled down a gravel road when they were just little puppies. They lived in this ditch for almost a week before people who lived near there could catch them. Now they are about 9-10 years old and healthy as ever.

One thing I would like to know is: What is the reason you need the dog in the car so bad?

I am only asking this to try to understand the situation. Is it to go camping, to go to the friends house to play with their dog, to the vet, to the dog park? If it is for any reason whatsoever that the dog may not enjoy the situation upon arrival- then this will be a lost cause. The dog needs to experience a LOT of positive vibes with the car before learning to enjoy the car ride itself.

First off, always use the crate. Whether you have the dog jump in to the crate before or after it is in the car- it is up to you. But stick with something strong, and a crate will surly make the collie feel a lot more secure. Make sure it is comfy as well! Maybe use a blanket that he is familiar with, like one he has slept on before. Perhaps even cover it with a sheet if it seems bothersome to the dog of the quickly passing scenery.

Okay, when you do bring the dog for a car ride- make the first few VERY short. The longer the car ride, the more stressed out he will be- and make sure to stop somewhere that he will have fun. Like a park or something, or at someones house who has a dog that enjoys playing with MIST.

----

Now, get something edible that smells VERY enticing, like mouth watering juicy steak smelling type thing that is safe for your dog to eat. Now, sit in the car and call your dog in a very soft tone, very happy. The closer and closer your dog gets to the vehicle- the more and more praise. The treat comes when the dog comes in contact with the vehicle and does not run away immediately. DO NOT bring the dog somewhere in the car (Unless you have to of course) as soon as it gets in there the first few times, let it get used to the car itself, the moving car will come later.

Now, lets say you dog is happy enough to put his front paws on the running board. Treat time! Pet and praise, and do not force him to get in. Never make him feel that he doesn't have a choice. Otherwise he will feel trapped and stressed, and this will only make the problem more difficult to deal with because he will recognize what you are doing next time you try, and he will relate it to what happened last time and Poof! Mist will not come near the car anymore. Maybe leave the car doors open for a while and let him investigate without knowing that he is being watched. Leave hidden treats in there. Leave the crate in the back with the door of it open- leave his favorite stuff in there, and a treat. The treats must be very enticing, or they may not do the trick!

It sounds to me like you have a second dog. Use this dog to teach MIST that the car is a good thing. Do the exact same exercise with the other dog that is not afraid of the car, but make sure that Mist is able to watch. Maybe tease him with this- let him see the other dog getting a nice snack in the car, and getting cuddled with, etc. As a border collie, he catches on to more things than most people would like to know! Everyone knows they are intelligent, but many people don't realize just how smart they really are.


My two BC's, I trained one to sit and shake a paw and lay down and stay. But, I was only a teenager, so I only trained one. WELL.. the other one saw this, and realized the attention it was missing out on, and one day ran over, and sat down next to her sister, and did every single command without a hesitant action. I later trained the one dog for agility- well.. guess who followed suit and became better than the sister who was trained for it? Thats right, they are way too intelligent for their own good!!

Good Luck!

[masterice]

OK well this will be quite a long reply I'm afraid so sorry for that LOL
I need to be able to take my dogs in the car to local walks, dog socialising, visiting and of course to the vet as well for yearly jab boosters.

As for always using the crate I am unable to get him in the crate and then lift it into the car for several reasons, not least of which is I am registered disabled following a major road accident with a permamnent leg injury and a shoulder which dislocates if I lift too much. I also have a damaged spine for which I am still undergoing medical tests/treatment so lifting is something I need to be seriously wary of.

And even if I didnt have health problems, the concept of trying to lift a 14kilo dog in a cage weighing about 20 kilos, 2 foot off the ground to slide into my SUV wouldn't strike me as something that an already spooked dog is going to find easy to accept nor would it be necessarily safe for either party. If the dog started to struggle, bite at the person lifting the cage causing them to drop it then injury to both parties is a distinct possiblity.

He has been tried with the cage placed in the car and he refuses to get in it even though in the house he goes in and out of it at will.
He even retreated to it during a couple of recent thunderstorms so he's got no problem with it until it goes in the car. Two people did lift him into the car in the cage and the moment he was inside the car he was in total panic mode and did try to attack those lifting the cage.
Lifting the cage back out and putting it on the floor and he's fine, even taking treats through the cage mesh. He has his own blanket and pillow in the cage as well by the way.

I have tried him with all manner of enticements - one of which was steak as it happens and he just sat there, looked at it and lay down on the ground and went to sleep. I have spent the better part of an hour on more than one occasion sitting in the car myself trying to entice him in.
I have him on a loose lead which I don't pull, I talk softly to him and offer him cajolery. I have also tried sitting there concealing a toy he likes and just letting him see glimpses of it, a situation which would normally pique his interest and make him come closer to look-see. But not when I am in the car. he's just not interested.

When he puts his feet inside the car I give him the treat and he immediately gets down from the car to eat it so I can't praise him as that would reinforce his belief that getting out of the car was the name of the game.
If I put the treats on the car floor he will lean in at full stretch, keeping his back paws on the ground and reach with his front paws trying to drag the treat across to his position. If he can't do it, he gets down and just waits for the next move.

I have also used Chishii as an example to Mist as to how easy it is to get in the car. Chishii will get in and out no problem. The look Mist gives him is somewhat like canine disdain! Even giving chishii treats didn't impress Mist nor entice him to get in.

I have spoken to one local canine psychologist who listed all the things he'd try and we found I'd already done them all as well as a few he'd not thought of.

The only thing left for me to try is to see if Mist is prepared to sit in the pouring rain as opposed to getting in the dry in the car - that's on the agenda for the next downpour!

With my luck he'll still not get in and I'll end up with pneumonia again!

[skunkstripe]

I guess we have to get very creative here since you've already stumped the canine psychologist, eh?
How about this (don't laugh!)-can you possibly get an old car seat or bench say from a junked car and have it somewhere where Mist can approach it on his own terms? This could be in the yard or :eek: in your living room if you are so inclined. Maybe leave the steak or some other enticement on it and so break down the problem into small bits.

[masterice]

Hmmm - that car seat idea's not as crazy as it sounds.
I am actually even trying him with different peoples cars as and when I can - only most of my buddies tend to drive SUV type things as well.
I shall bear that one in mind

Thanks

[skunkstripe]

Hey when I was in graduate school a housemate had a Karmann Ghia engine that he was rebuilding in the living room for many months so a car bench would be less annoying than that I would think. :p

[masterice]

Well he has no problem with seats or anything mechanical/automobile. He follows me into my workshop and isn't fazed by power tools running. He'll go in the garage and wander round the bike and the trike and all the welding gear without a qualm.
It's just the getting in the car he won't do at any price.:confused:

[masterice]

Today I finally had the weather to try another new angle at the "get the reluctant dog in the car" game.
I moved the car right against the garage door and opened the rear passenger door so basically when Mist came down the steps from my house his path for escape was somewhat hindered.
Then I sat indoors and waited for the expected rain to start falling.
As soon as it did I put his lead on and down we went.
The rain was hissing down!
I leapt into the car calling to him and............. nope, not even a paw over the threshold.
He decided he'd rather sit there and get wet.
Despite cajolery, treats and exultations in the end, the pitious sight of a wet and soggy dog got to me and we went back in.
Not that he hates rain - I guess it's his Welsh hill collies stock that does it.
And of course once we were in, he wanted to be all friendly in his most moist manner!
Ah well - we'll get there eventually

Slim haines

[Sabledog]

this is a tricky one...heres my suggestion,m it may or may not work, but whe i was younger, we had a rottie/collie mix that fell out of a truck (it was parked) and broke her back leg, after that she refuesed to get back into a vehicle of any kind, and when she was picked up and made to get in, she got extremely car sick!!! what we ended up doing was leaving the car door open, tied her leash to the seat belt, and a bunch of treats on the seat, and walked out of veiw, it took some time but eventually she built up enough courage to slowly climb into the car to get the treats. after doing this a few times, we would do the same thing but stayed in sight. after several repetitions of this, we got to where we could hold her leash and wait till she got in the car on her own, it took alot of time but we did eventually get to where she would get in the car without a struggle.