View Full Version : Possible fear aggression or something else..
Monkey
10-25-2007, 08:28 PM
Yeah.. NOW came the first real surprise with Missy...
I am not feeling to well so I sat on the bed playing with her and a ball. Everything went fine, I could take the ball and everything.. all of a sudden she leapt for my face and bit my nose (only on play) you know how young pits can be esp none properly raised ones..
BUT, that made me jump up and grab hold of her really fast due to that I see teeth coming towards my face.. When I did that I startled her and she started snapping towards me and growling and jumped and she got my arm and bit down really hard (without drawing blood thank god) but.. Either she got scared and wanted to defend herself or she is thought to roughouse too hard, or something else..
I'm a bit insecure so far of what it is, but when I called her over instead of going angry at her she calmed down rather quick and displayed very low behaviours wich make me feel that she got startled and reacted to that. And that it was not on purpouse.
However it's good it was ME it happened too so I know to wich level I can let her interact with people and what is gonna go on the priority of training.
Nr 1 priority will be, NO biting, none whatsoever.. No tug no nothing.. she needs to calm down, not sure if I even will reintroduce it either. Or if Ill learn her controlled tug later.. Right now I feel that that is not a good idea. Depends on her development.
On a good note.. she has learnt Sit now.. it's a start and this is not her fault poor baby.. BUT her contact with other people will be under very controlled curcomstances..
KatzNK9
10-25-2007, 08:33 PM
I'd reconsider that no tugging idea. If she were my dog, I'd definitely want to direct that energy into something I could control but I'd teach her "take", "hold", and "release" first. IMO, letting that instinct/so called aggression build up rather than having an acceptable outlet would seem highly dangerous to me.
Monkey
10-25-2007, 08:35 PM
I'd reconsider that no tugging idea. If she were my dog, I'd definitely want to direct that energy into something I could control but I'd teach her "take", "hold", and "release" first. IMO, letting that instinct/so called aggression build up rather than having an acceptable outlet would seem highly dangerous to me.
that is what I am contemplating.. but first she needs to calm down..
I will make sure that she get an outlet for it but not with a human nor another dog. Ill give her boxes with treats in that she can get to tear to peices and work with that kind of behaviour rather than roughousing Tasha and nip at people.. while tearing the boxes to peices she also get to work with her brain wich should be a fairly good even combo.. and after a while reintroducing it depending on how she does...
lilpantz
10-25-2007, 09:03 PM
Monkey, Missy is sooo lucky to have found you. It's nice to know she with someone who has some experience, and is willing to take the time to work with her. I wish you both much luck. Give Missy a smooch for me!
No, I think just going on the circumstances you describe I would consider this dog not a good candidate for tug games for the time being. Pit bull types in my experience can be very quick to reach a high level of arousal which can tip over into aggression with very little warning (and they are certainly not the only breed type that can be prone to this before I get slammed by the bull breed supporters). I would focus on rewarding and promoting calm behaviour around the house and around people as a priority. Yes, it does sound like a fear aggressive response on the face of it, however you now know this dog can be reactive and despite this being an understandable response given the circumstances I would not downplay the significance. This dog will be feeling very unsure of things right now, but since you are very used to working with rescues and even aggression then I am sure she is in the right hands and you will take the necessary precautions.
Katz is of course right about high drive dogs needing a suitable outlet for their energy, but for some individual dogs with issues I have found (outdoor) retrieve games more appropriate in the early stages than tug games.
KatzNK9
10-25-2007, 10:11 PM
Kaos, I'd teach her "take" & "release" first (and that wouldn't happen over night). I wouldn't just dive right into tug games. I think this behavior needs a significant release of that energy & doubt that tearing up boxes is anywhere near the outlet she needs.
She's definitely going to take some hard work & time.
Oh yes, I know that is what you meant Katz, but with some individual rescues with issues, particularly those who have issues with rapid arousal leading to aggression, I have found tug is just not advisable. They need to learn to be calm initially. For most dogs I am all in favour of controlled tug.
Either way, Monkey is the only one that has seen this dogs behaviour first hand so I am sure she will make an appropriate call.
KatzNK9
10-25-2007, 10:38 PM
:) Just clarifying.
On a side note, I'm not quick to label something aggression even if it is unacceptable behavior & even if it includes mouth/teeth. Since the history of this dog is unknown, I'd focus on trying to figure out whether or not there really is aggression or whether the dog has never learned that it isn't appropriate to use its mouth/teeth in that manner. Even though both scenarios can be quite dangerous, I'd likely take two different paths to fix it. In either case, I'd do some work with the mouth (holding, carrying, delivering, releasing, fetching, etc. to give the dog something useful to do with her mouth.)
I do agree Katz, and we should be wary of any labelling without seeing the behaviour, but I do class snapping & growling as low level aggression. In this case it sounded like a reactive response to a situation the dog found fearful (understandably given unknown history and new circumstances) rather than any over the top play move. This does not make this an inherently bad dog, but it does mean that sensible precautions should be put into place during it's assessment period at least.
KatzNK9
10-25-2007, 10:56 PM
Absolutely agreed.:cheers:
Monkey - let us know how you get on...
Shutzhunde school or protection school... right now... right now.
Monkey
10-26-2007, 07:35 PM
Shutzhunde school or protection school... right now... right now.
your funny...
sorry guys for taking so long..
been in the hospital again... *sighs* and I will keep you updated..