Help..!

[illy]

I'm living with a friend who has 2 dogs. One 2 year old male Maltese Terrior (Gucci), and the other one, a 6 year old female Chihuahua x Fox Terrier (Winnie). Winnie has 2 baby pups with Gucci that are probably a month old. Now here's the problem.

I have a 5 month old female puppy (Beagle x Kelpie). Her name's illy and she gets a long very well with Gucci (Winnie doesn't like illy unfortunately, sometimes attacks her, but my dog just surrenders because she's very passive. I haven't seen Winnie biting illy though, I just think she's being defensive over her pups). Anyway, that's besides the point. Today I saw Gucci trying to hump my puppy!! I don't think Gucci actually got "it" in, because illy kept moving and trying to get him off, though I am very concerned as I know how passive my dog can get!

She can't get desexed (spayed) yet as they have to be 6 months old, so I'm wondering about the possibilities of my pup being pregnant. I really do not wish for her to be pregnant at all, so I don't really know what else I can do. I can't seperate them as the houseowner doesn't want dogs inside the house.

Apart from that, I'm trying to find money to pay for her desexing which is in a month! (She's born on the 11th). I only have $130 and in Australia, desexing costs around $230. I'm very concerned and worried and I just need some suggestions on what I can do, and if my puppy can actually get pregnant. She also needs her last puppy shot which was due on the 7th but I couldn't get it done as I had to pay rent. I don't know what I can do for her right now and I'm soo distressed. =( I feel like I'm such a bad owner when I look at her.

Any suggestions?

Oh and I forgot to mention that Gucci is afraid of heights, so we put him on a table to seperate them for the time being. He usually sleeps on the table because he barks a lot, and that's the only way to make him shut up. Of course, this can't be a permanent thing until the heat wears off.

This is the most recent picture of her:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/anonamiss/whatchulookingat.jpg

She's so cute!

[MrsRottie]

Hi Illy,
She's lovely :)

My opinion is this : I think you're right saying that Illy is defending her pups. Once the pups are older she will more than likely settle down and get on just fine with your pup.

Re the humping - it's a dominance thing - absolutely nothing to do with procreation whatsoever. Gucci is letting your pup know who is boss. It's fairly unusual in my experience (which is rather limited!) for a huge dominance display with a pup - the adult dog can tell it's a pup simply from their smell, but chances are he's a bit confused and possibly defending the pups too.

Illy will NOT be pregnant. A bitch has to be in season or at least very near it to get pregnant. The dog will 'lock' into the bitch when mating and you would not be able to part them until it was over. (Not that you should try - that can be dangerous in itself)

Should you ever be in the position where you think Gucci has got to her then a trip to your vet for the 'morning after' pill would be necessary. De-sexing is expensive, but permanent and a lot easier on your nerves!

Take a deep breath and calm down - they will work it out amongst themselves :)
Re the jabs - I know exactly what you mean - they cost a fortune. While you're not sure if she's covered or not, keep her in and only let her play with other vaccinated dogs. Have a chat with your vet see if they can do a pay in instalments account for you??

Good Luck, let us know how you get on :)

Jane x

[lassie]

Yes agree with posting above, butDo you not think Gucci would be better done too?

[dlambertz]

oh my! i would talk to your vet about possibly making payments on a spay. here they spay as early as 8 wks. i agree with the other poster about gucci being neutered too. course, i am pro spay neuter advocate. i feel only the best breeders should breed and the rest of us should just enjoy all the hard work and knowledge they have about the breed they raise.
darla

[lassie]

8 weeks your'e kidding:mad: blimey

[dlambertz]

8 weeks your'e kidding:mad: blimey
my vet waited on the chihuahua due to size but told me wheaten could have been done easily at 12 wks. here is an article on early spay neuter http://www.ahimsatx.org/easn/easnmm.htm when my girls were done...(all at 6 months because i didn't know about early spay than) they only had an incision about 1/4" long... amazing from the old time spays we used to see. :)
darla

[illy]

Gucci isn't my dog and I don't think the owner wants him to be desexed. Winnie was desexed when she was 6 months old, but apparantly she still got pregnant!

So my pup won't get pregnant if she's not in heat? How do we know this for sure? It's just wrong if she did get pregnant cause she's still a puppy and can barely look after herself, let alone bare puppies.

I just hope it's a dominance thing, though my pup thinks that it's just a game what Gucci is doing (at least it seems like it). I watched them today, and I haven't seen Gucci mounting on her so that's a good sign. Hopefully he won't do it again until she gets desexed.

With regards to getting her desexed.. I think I'll just borrow money to get it done, along with the Booster shot. Luckily it's her last one!

Thanks everyone for your posts!

[Taeric]

I really don't think you have anything to worry about. A female pup isn't reproductively mature prior to her first heat, and even if she was mature, it would be an astronomical longshot to get pregnant when not in heat.

It's very odd that your friend's dog managed to get pregnant. When a female gets spayed, the vet performs a full hysterectomy (at least in the US), so the equipment is not longer available to support a pregnancy. Maybe that pup had a lesser procedure done (like the canine equivalent of having her tubes tied, if such a procedure exists for dogs). From the price you quoted in your first post, I'm sure you're getting the full surgery. I think we paid around $150 US for our dog's spaying last summer. It's definitely a very good thing to do, especially before the first heat. I've read that the chances of various cancers and other maladies increase exponentially after the first heat. Good luck. :)

[ChipsDad]

Get it done ASAP!

[MrsRottie]

There is some research here in the UK which shows that bitches speyed prior to their first season can be come totally incontinent.
I would love to be able to reference this research for you, but it was something my vet told me about. It only happens in a very few cases, but once it happens it is non-reversible.
I'll ask the vet and see if I can fill in more details on that.....

[dlambertz]

There is some research here in the UK which shows that bitches speyed prior to their first season can be come totally incontinent.
I would love to be able to reference this research for you, but it was something my vet told me about. It only happens in a very few cases, but once it happens it is non-reversible.
I'll ask the vet and see if I can fill in more details on that.....

there are risks involved anytime there is a surgery. all we can do is carefully way our options and make the best choice for our situation.

when i got mia, our afghan hound, i was told to do a parital spay on her by many afghan people...my vet asked me if i was nuts ... told me she would still come into heat, attract males, all the symptoms of an intact bitch, just not able to reproduce.... no thanks! mia had a total like all the other girls in my home :)

[lassie]

Yes Rottie, i know of a collie that was spayed before her first season, she lived till she was 12 but was on medication all of her life, due to her incontinence caused by early spaying. IMO i always let my bitches have one season and then they are spayed if not breeding from them.:) Vets can't agree on this subject so its down to the individual to decide:confused:

[nancy]

could you not borrow a dog cage for your puppy to put her in when there is nobody arround to watch the dogs ? Being a responsable owner means watching out for your dog and taking chances of her having puppies at a few months old is not verry responsable .

[illy]

I don't think anyone that I knows has a cage. Plus my dog doesn't like to be in confined spaces, so I think that's cruel and unfair to her. She'll probably think she's being punished for something. So no, I'm not going to cage her because of this. After reasearching about this on the Web and to the forum replies, I doubt she will become pregnant.

I'm seeing the Vet on Monday and gonna see what he says.

Thanks for the replies by the way.


Also with Winnie, her Vet said that they probably desexed her while she was still developing, which could explain why she still got pregnant. It costed her $230 as well for desexing, so I'm guessing that's the full package! What a waste.

[lassie]

if a dog has been spayed it can't get pregnant.

[dlambertz]

I don't think anyone that I knows has a cage. Plus my dog doesn't like to be in confined spaces, so I think that's cruel and unfair to her. She'll probably think she's being punished for something. So no, I'm not going to cage her because of this. After reasearching about this on the Web and to the forum replies, I doubt she will become pregnant.

illy, giving your pet a safe haven and a place to go is not a punishement. do some research on crate training. there is a lot of responsibilty that comes along with having a pet. and like kids, the pets do not always know what is best for them, so we need to mold them.

you, at this point have a mixed breed dog that seems to have little or no training. what happens to the dog if you are no longer able to keep it? unfortunately sometimes things happen that are out of our control. my son found out he worked too many hours and the dogs needed more time than what he could give them. he lived with his fiance who was a stay at home mom to my grandchildren. there was a car accident and my future daughter in law and my oldest granddaughter we killed. if gertrude (english bulldog) and dodger (jack russell terrier) had not been well socialized, obidient dogs they would have been much harder to place and even after being placed, we would have worried about them not working out in their new homes and ending up in our local kill shelter.

training your dog is not being mean to your dog...it is insuring your dog will have the best possible life.

[illy]

illy, giving your pet a safe haven and a place to go is not a punishement. do some research on crate training. there is a lot of responsibilty that comes along with having a pet. and like kids, the pets do not always know what is best for them, so we need to mold them.

you, at this point have a mixed breed dog that seems to have little or no training. what happens to the dog if you are no longer able to keep it? unfortunately sometimes things happen that are out of our control. my son found out he worked too many hours and the dogs needed more time than what he could give them. he lived with his fiance who was a stay at home mom to my grandchildren. there was a car accident and my future daughter in law and my oldest granddaughter we killed. if gertrude (english bulldog) and dodger (jack russell terrier) had not been well socialized, obidient dogs they would have been much harder to place and even after being placed, we would have worried about them not working out in their new homes and ending up in our local kill shelter.

training your dog is not being mean to your dog...it is insuring your dog will have the best possible life.


Okay you're going way overboard here. I just asked a simple question and it got to this? I got a mixed dog that seems to have little or no training. Like you would know. She's the most obediant puppy I have ever seen or met. She got taught how to sit/down/hi5/bark when she was 3 months old, all in under 5 minutes. But that's not the point, she listens to you, sits when she eats, sits when she sees you, doesn't go around biting furniture; she is not destructive. Oh and not to mention, house trained in a week. Obediant enough for you? Comes to you whenever she's called, even if there's a big commotion going on, doesn't go overly excited when she see's someone, nor does she bark excessively.

She just doesn't like to be in confined, she likes to run around, she's half Australian Kelpie, they're herding dogs who love to run. Half breed? What has her being half breed have to do with anything? If you want to talk about half breed, she has 2 of the most smartest breeds in her, yet you think she has "little or no training"? Oh and what's this about her not being "obediant" and well socialized? I stated this in my first post I believe, she's a friendly dog. Do I need to say more? I think I know more about my dog than you do thank you very much.

Your son worked too many hours. I go to college fulltime, which is only 4 hours a day 5 days a week. We have 3 people living in our household that are all dog people, they get lots of attention. Even if they didn't, they cope well. My pup doesn't cry like most dogs do. Hell, when I first got her, she didn't cry at all! She's pretty independant, even for a puppy.

But of course I already stated that I did not want her getting pregnant, and I knew it would be irresponsible if she did. I clearly stated that. To say what I said in my earlier post, I am going to the vet on Monday. Clear enough for you? I will ask him what I can do for her. Gucci has not been mounting her anymore, I have been watching and monitoring them. So yes, it could be just a dominance thing when we first saw it. My dog didn't give him the chance to do anything since she kept moving and does get him off, even when they're just playing. And after we found out he was trying to mount her, we already seperated them. And he has not done it again after our observations.

You make it sound so easy to seperate these dogs. Gucci and my pup are best friends. To let illy inside a cage and have Gucci running around in the backyard isn't very fair to her is it? I'm sorry but I'm just going to have to pass on this suggestion.

And sorry again, maybe next time I have to be more descriptive of every single detail. Mixed breed that seems to have little or no training at all. Lol funniest thing I ever heard today. Thanks.

[lassie]

So why ask for advice then, as clearly you dont appreciate peoples efforts in replying to your posts:rolleyes:

[dlambertz]

i was pretty sure you would take offense to my suggestion. i am sorry for that. from my experience if a pup is not crate trained the rest of the training is not usually too far behind. i volunteered for over 15 years at our local shelter and i can tell you mixed larger breeds are USUALLY the last to find home. being a big black dog has even a harder chance of being placed. (edited here to add i know your dog is not a big black dog)
you can walk into the kennels and if the dog has the appearance of a purebred it is the first one to go, most pay no mind to it's training. let an obidient herding mix sit in the kennel next to the english bulldog ... or the maltese, guess who is walking out the door with a new owner first.
as far as running breeds, i have an afghan hound. she is crate trained. but it sounds like your dogs are just loose in the backyard. all my dogs are housedogs.
now onto my son...which i will forewarn you is a very delicate subject with me. at the age of 22 he lost 1/2 of his family, a 3yr old daughter he donated his kidney to exactly one year before the car accident. due to a young lady who was late for work hitting them head-on. my son works 12-15 hours a day 5 days a week and will work an occassional saturday. he also takes care of my now 3yr old granddaughter, who was 11 months old at the time of the accident, when he gets home. [quote] Your son worked too many hours. I go to college fulltime, which is only 4 hours a day 5 days a week [quote]
i have 3 people in my home, 4 dogs. there are times that the dogs need to be seperated... easy...yep i tell them to kennel up and they all find their crate. ages ? 10 months, 7 months, 7 months and 5 years. so i do know what it is like to have "friends" who like to play together seperated. happens here all the time.
and as far as mixed breeds go ... i have owned some wonderful mixed breeds in the past. probably will sometime again in the future...right now we are concentrating on dogs that are show quality for my 9 yr old to take into the ring.

[illy]

So why ask for advice then, as clearly you dont appreciate peoples efforts in replying to your posts:rolleyes:

Funny since in a few of my posts earlier I said "Thanks for the replies". Appreciative enough? I coulda just read the post and stopped posting back.

i volunteered for over 15 years at our local shelter and i can tell you mixed larger breeds are USUALLY the last to find home. being a big black dog has even a harder chance of being placed. (edited here to add i know your dog is not a big black dog)
you can walk into the kennels and if the dog has the appearance of a purebred it is the first one to go, most pay no mind to it's training. let an obidient herding mix sit in the kennel next to the english bulldog ... or the maltese, guess who is walking out the door with a new owner first.

I don't see what mixed breeds got to do with my original subject here, but whichever. A dog's a dog, I'm sorry that most people seem to like pure breed dogs, for me, however, I don't really care. A dog's a dog regardless of what breed. I know you take favour of purebreed dogs, but that's your problem, and has nothing to do with mines.

and as far as mixed breeds go ... i have owned some wonderful mixed breeds in the past. probably will sometime again in the future...right now we are concentrating on dogs that are show quality for my 9 yr old to take into the ring.

That's good for you. I don't care, once again what you do with your dogs, it has nothing to do with my black mixed non-obediant breed. Let loose around the backyard, funnily enough she sleeps most of the time, will wrestle with Gucci for a bit then go back to sleep.


Anyway, going back to the ORIGINAL topic, why would I get a crate/cage whichever for less than a month, when she's going to get desexed anyway? This will be my last post here seeing as though some of you are pretty closed minded and dog fanatics who think their experience applies to every single case.