Red,white & Blue Rotties

[Darcyin]

Just looking at faults with in the rottweiler breed this evening just research.
But these things happen but hopefully not too often, but as with all the new in so called designer breeds, should there be a market for them people will produce, often at a far higher price than a good well bread example would set you back, but what gets me is the fact that their is a demand for infact could be a waiting list for red rotties and as for white their going nuts about getting them .I have heard plenty of talk about whites but still know photos.
Do these folk not realise these are faults or do they just not care.
As for not having seen a white rottie I think some will appear very soon to fill the demand.

Now its just a question of what will they call them,,,to obtain the silly amount of cash they would need the designer name,,RED,,OR ROTT,

[skunkstripe]

I had never heard of a "red" Rottweiler so I looked around to see what I could find.
Apparently there is such a thing - sort of. It is considered a genetic fault by the breed club in the US
http://www.amrottclub.org/redrotts.htm

Here is a picture and a story of a "Red Rottie" from a rescue.
http://www.msu.edu/~silvar/Janie.htm
http://www.msu.edu/~silvar/rottweiler.htm

So now I am curious, are there any diseases or problems that are associated with the red coat?

[KatzNK9]

Do these folk not realise these are faults or do they just not care.
As for not having seen a white rottie I think some will appear very soon to fill the demand.


Through the years, many people have capitalized on genetic defects in animals to give the impression of "rare" animals (the general public falsely assumes quality when they see the word "rare".).

[happysaz133]

Hello Darcyin, welcome to the forum. I've never heard of Rottie's being any other colour, I imagine they would look very strange. No doubt they will become the next must have dog though when people realise.

[sheplovr]

That is just NOT right. This is what is destroying some great breeds of dogs. People want to be different I guess, so they fall for the so called new colors. I cannot imagine the white Rotty, that red one I looked at of skunkstripes reply did not look purebred to me. I owned Rottys and they were definately red, blk, beautiful dogs. I have no colored photos as digitals did not exist that long ago, now I sound ancient, guess I am the oldest on here. But, it is also sad for Shepherds also. Why breeders mess with colors and change them on their own.?? I would certainly not think the AKC would recognize this for years and hopefully I will be passed not to see this registered with them.? Keep the breeds standard, stop messin with them. Some people have more money than they know what to do with, give or donate to the needy shelters rather than ruin a nice breed of dog.:rolleyes:

[Kaos]

Thanks for the info and links - I hadn't heard of them either. If anybody can find a photo of a white or blue one would be interested...

[applesmom]

There have always been occasional mismarks in purebreds.

Until the recent age of enlightenment (the last 50/70 years) the mismarked litters never had a chance to reproduce. They were put down at birth in order to stop the trend instantly!

Occasionally even in this enlightened age, mismarked or deformed puppies (and even entire litters) are still put down at birth by longtime ethical breeders, but it's kept a deep dark secret from the public.

Now that the tide has permanently changed toward the beliefs that every puppy must be saved regardless of health or adherence to the breed standard; we'll be seeing more and more dogs with genetic anomolies. In another 50 years it will be almost impossible to purchase a purebred of any breed as we know them today.

It's possible that the ethical breeding of dogs will go full circle back to the days when only the very wealthy could afford to own a purebred!

[montanagal]

I personally see nothing particularly wrong with selling mismarked puppies, as long as the breeder doesn't try to jack the price. If, however, breeding for a specific color leads to other defects, such as deafness, blindness, missing limbs or other such health issues, it should not be done. If a dog can do it's job, whether that is companion animal or working animal, it shouldn't matter what color it is, or whether the dog is pure bred or not.

[applesmom]

I personally see nothing particularly wrong with selling mismarked puppies, as long as the breeder doesn't try to jack the price. If, however, breeding for a specific color leads to other defects, such as deafness, blindness, missing limbs or other such health issues, it should not be done. If a dog can do it's job, whether that is companion animal or working animal, it shouldn't matter what color it is, or whether the dog is pure bred or not.

In the majority of breeds the mismarks are a result of indiscriminate breeding somewhere in the history of the parents. To allow these dogs to reproduce is to dimininish the characteristics of the breed in other ways too; not just color.

If the standards are continuiously allowed to be comprimised; they might as well tear up the standard and stop breeding purebreds.

Thankfully with the numbers of ethical breeders currently taking advantage of DNA registration; the majority of these unethical breeders will eventually be exposed.

In the meanwhile the purchasers of these "rare" dogs, deserve exactly what they get. High prices and in many cases unhealthy dogs or dogs that do not fit the breed description in temperment, abilities or appearance.

[montanagal]

If the standards are continuiously allowed to be comprimised; they might as well tear up the standard and stop breeding purebreds.While I agree with what you are saying in your post, this sentance gave me pause for thought. This was part of the argument when BC breeders were trying to keep the BC from becoming a recongnized breed. This is also a problem we are facing in the horse world between Quarter horses and Paint horses. What is the point of a breed standard if it limits the gene pool from which one may select for future generations? If a red Rottweiler can protect the family and property just as well as a black Rottweiler, what does color matter? Unless red coloring in the Rottie is connected to health or temperment issues, I see no reason why breeders should cull them.

[eb4i]

Just been a matter of time really before the Red Rotty came into being.

I hope they do as well as the Red Doberman has.

[melissa2007]

In the majority of breeds the mismarks are a result of indiscriminate breeding somewhere in the history of the parents. To allow these dogs to reproduce is to dimininish the characteristics of the breed in other ways too; not just color.

If the standards are continuiously allowed to be comprimised; they might as well tear up the standard and stop breeding purebreds.

Thankfully with the numbers of ethical breeders currently taking advantage of DNA registration; the majority of these unethical breeders will eventually be exposed.

In the meanwhile the purchasers of these "rare" dogs, deserve exactly what they get. High prices and in many cases unhealthy dogs or dogs that do not fit the breed description in temperment, abilities or appearance.

I agree 100%, if someone pays high prices for a mismarked dog that the breeders call "rare" they obviously didn't research the breed at all, I still have a hard time convincing people that they waste there money paying big bucks for a rare white Lab

[RavingRott]

Rottweilers should be black and tan - full stop. Any deviation from this is a genetic fault. I dont think pups born with perhaps a white stripe or a long coat should be culled but I definitely think they should be spayed/neutered as soon as possible to stop them being bred from. If dogs with faults in their genes are continually bred from then the pedigree will become so watered down that we might as well not have a breed standard at all.

[sheplovr]

You can be one of the Best Breeders of a Breed, the gene will sneak through, if so no papers sold pet only or restrict papers as I do for pets only anyhow. I do not want my puppies bred, as for breed quality you might have to breed 5 or 6 litters to get one good looking dog to breed, etc. And you should charge almost double the price of a pet quality puppy. Of course mismarks happen often some white on chest, foot does disappear in time as it is not on parents so not permanet. To completely change the color of a breed to rare and have puppies to sell is totally wrong. I have seen good mixes working in Aruba search n rescue for that girl missing there, they can be trained, rescued from shelters, tested for drive to work and then trained, nothing special but the dog does its job.

[eb4i]

For the love of god ppl... The colour of the dogs coat has nothing to do with the dogs ability to be a excellent example of the breed...

I don't think the red Rottie is for me, personally, but the Red Dobie has turned out FINE and often shows every point of classical Dobiedom. They can be fine examples of the breed.... why is there some thinking that this can't be true of the Rottie as well? I'm certainly not saying that it would happen overnight but dedicated breeding would likely produce accepatble "Reds".

Breed standard is all well and fine... but I tell you this much... If I have a Black and Tan Rottie and a Red One and the RED one is out performing the Black? .... I know right now which one I'd BREED.

I'd much rather have an ostrascized winner than an acceptable loser.

Performance is EVERYTHING.

[applesmom]

For the love of god ppl... The colour of the dogs coat has nothing to do with the dogs ability to be a excellent example of the breed...

I don't think the red Rottie is for me, personally, but the Red Dobie has turned out FINE and often shows every point of classical Dobiedom. They can be fine examples of the breed.... why is there some thinking that this can't be true of the Rottie as well? I'm certainly not saying that it would happen overnight but dedicated breeding would likely produce accepatble "Reds".

Breed standard is all well and fine... but I tell you this much... If I have a Black and Tan Rottie and a Red One and the RED one is out performing the Black? .... I know right now which one I'd BREED.

I'd much rather have an ostrascized winner than an acceptable loser.

Performance is EVERYTHING.

It just might be at a point in the history of the dog where we should stop breeding for specific purposes and just go back to the days when only the very elite own purebreds and the rest had heinz 57 varities!.

It's very seldom today that any particular breed actually does what it was designed to do originally.

When you think about it just in the sporting group alone there aren't many breeds that are still used as hunting dogs. A cocker spaniel certainly isn't going to be used as a hunting dog any more than the clumber spaniel or the Irish setter. Most retreivers in pet households wouldn't have the instinct to sit in a duck blind and retrieve a dead bird from icy water if their lives depended on it, Nor would any of these dogs have the stamina it takes, and their long flowing coats would be a disaster in the field.

It's just possible that the pet owning public doesn't need purebreds any longer--other than to say "I own a purebred dog"!

Lets throw all the standards out the window and see what the dogs of the future will look and act like. Who knows? They might be better off than they are right now.

[eb4i]

It just might be at a point in the history of the dog where we should stop breeding for specific purposes and just go back to the days when only the very elite own purebreds and the rest had heinz 57 varities!.

It's very seldom today that any particular breed actually does what it was designed to do originally.

When you think about it just in the sporting group alone there aren't many breeds that are still used as hunting dogs. A cocker spaniel certainly isn't going to be used as a hunting dog any more than the clumber spaniel or the Irish setter. Most retreivers in pet households wouldn't have the instinct to sit in a duck blind and retrieve a dead bird from icy water if their lives depended on it, Nor would any of these dogs have the stamina it takes, and their long flowing coats would be a disaster in the field.

It's just possible that the pet owning public doesn't need purebreds any longer--other than to say "I own a purebred dog"!

Lets throw all the standards out the window and see what the dogs of the future will look and act like. Who knows? They might be better off than they are right now.


I dunno if breed standards need to be tossed out the window or not, but a healthy dose of common sense would likely help a breed alot more than fanatical devotion to a certain colouration of said breed.

Popularity is a death knell to many breeds of dog....

[Canine-Expert]

Remember that if you are unsure as to a specimen a DNA test can tell you wether an animal is pedigree and merely displaying a recessive gene or a mix. However pedigrees almost never have uncommon phenotypic displays (eg. Unusual fur color) as the geneotypes are what make it a pedigree, in most cases this phenotypic expression is as the result of genetic damages (eg. Heretitary disease). So personally I would not expect phenotypes to change in a pedigree animal of any kind, most likely it has bee crossed but displays most of the genotypic characteristics of a certain parent which is not so unusual as many human children take strikingly after there white mother for instance even though thier father is black.
Need more info just ask.

[Spicy_VV]

It just might be at a point in the history of the dog where we should stop breeding for specific purposes and just go back to the days when only the very elite own purebreds and the rest had heinz 57 varities!.

It's very seldom today that any particular breed actually does what it was designed to do originally.

When you think about it just in the sporting group alone there aren't many breeds that are still used as hunting dogs. A cocker spaniel certainly isn't going to be used as a hunting dog any more than the clumber spaniel or the Irish setter. Most retreivers in pet households wouldn't have the instinct to sit in a duck blind and retrieve a dead bird from icy water if their lives depended on it, Nor would any of these dogs have the stamina it takes, and their long flowing coats would be a disaster in the field.

It's just possible that the pet owning public doesn't need purebreds any longer--other than to say "I own a purebred dog"!

Lets throw all the standards out the window and see what the dogs of the future will look and act like. Who knows? They might be better off than they are right now.

Thats the problem. The dogs don't or likely can't work. Breed standards are of importance but they should not be so strict and rigid on certain matters. Such things have actually almost caused the death of some breeds. It has caused many dogs to be culled that were great specimens simply because some breed enthusiast decided what were acceptable colors and what were not. I don't think red Rotts should be bred willy nilly, there isn't a need to breed very many dogs in the first place, if its connect with a health issue it should certainly be culled but if someone is breeding true working dogs it shouldn't matter what the dog looks like as long as the structure is sound.

Many breeds have survived has purebred with pretty good type without a written conformation standard. But saw negatives after being recognized.

The elite were part of the problem were they not? Once the kennel club was formed and the elite spent their leisure time breeding dogs strict standards were created and dogs were no longer bred to work as they were in the past but bred for how they look, even deformities like the current day English Bulldogs came of this, while the look might be appealing it is a a non functional unhealthy breed. Basically people started breeding for how they wanted a dog to look with little regard to function, working ability or heartiness. The dogs didn't need it.

[Melamaphine]

When you think about it just in the sporting group alone there aren't many breeds that are still used as hunting dogs. A cocker spaniel certainly isn't going to be used as a hunting dog any more than the clumber spaniel or the Irish setter.
.

I agree that many dogs aren't used for what they were originally bred for, my Rough Collie wouldn't have a clue how to herd sheep! but here in the UK it is very common for Cocker Spaniels to be used as working gundogs. I have a neighbour who has a working cocker and springer, and my cocker definitely has a strong instinct for what a Cocker was bred for - she will flush out wildlife from undergrowth and sniff things out for you. My previous springer was a pet but had an incredible prey drive and would retrieve ANYTHING from water. He would also point out prey like his pointer counterparts.

The working variants just tend to look less 'standard' than the KC variety, and there are more colours seen as the breeders are producing pups for function rather than aesthetics. The Border Collie is a prime example of this. I see no reason why if a pup is healthy and has sound temperament, it should be disregarded as 'incorrect'.

I agree that the Red Rott shouldn't be bred for gain and as a designer dog, but if Red Rotts appear, why is it such a bad thing? Just because the KC/AKC regards them as wrong, it doesn't mean they are. Not everyone can agree what is right and wrong anyway - in the UK sable-headed white collies are a HUGE no-no, but in the AKC they are accepted.

[simbasdog]

i have heard of the red rottie,im not interested one bit,i cant even remember what i read about it.
as for white rottie,are you really sure about this? id be shocked if you could back this statement up!
certain rottie pups do get white markings on the chest,ive heard of white markings elsewhere which is very rare.

[paigeolivia.]

Colour means nothing. I think Martin Luther King proved that. The situation between black and whites in that period of time seems alike to the argument here. No matter what colour a person or animal is, as long as they are a good family pet or do what the owner needs them to do, who actually cares whether they have two heads, five tails or are an incorrect colour? They dont even need to be pedigree. A dog is a dog and as long as it is good as a pet or good to do what the owner needs them for, who pays that much mind to it? I might go as far as to say that discrimination among dogs, whether to its breed, its colour or what it looks like, is just as wrong as it is among people. Wouldnt you be irratated if somebody came up to you and said, 'Id like you to move away please. Your hair is the wrong colour, your not a good enough specimen of a human to sit near me' ?

Think about it. Its just pedantry to whinge about colours and appearances I think.

[Kyllobernese]

I know color does not mean a lot and dogs should never be bred strictly for color. What puzzles me is why there are so many solid colored breeds that are now showing up colored like Pinto horses. Where do they get these colors from? I am talking about Poodles, Pomeranians, to name a few I can think of right now.

[Chaz]

I've heard of red rotties, also where I got a maine coon cross kitten the breeder had a long haired one, it had the right markings but i was amazed at a long haired one. But I do agree with paigeolivia in that it don't matter what a dog looks like.

[skunkstripe]

Of course it is not the color itself - the problems can arise when the vast majority of existing dogs of a certain breed have one or only a few "accepted" colors and suddenly a mutation or "rare" gene causes an unusual color. IF that is used as a selling point (and I am saying IF) what often happens is that these rare colors can only be bred from a very limited gene pool. Anytime the gene pool is limited there is a higher chance that hereditary diseases will go along the DNA strand for the ride along with that rare color. With a greater number of animals to choose from, you can select on the basis of health and temperament and not put a rare color in the foreground.

I know color does not mean a lot and dogs should never be bred strictly for color. What puzzles me is why there are so many solid colored breeds that are now showing up colored like Pinto horses. Where do they get these colors from? I am talking about Poodles, Pomeranians, to name a few I can think of right now.

As far as the general question goes (not just Rotties) there was a thread where we were discussing that very thing.
http://www.dogforum.org/showthread.php?t=16683

[applesmom]

It may not matter what a dog looks like to a pet owner. But to someone that is dead serious about preserving a breed as it was intended, these deliberately bred off color dogs are walking disasters. Just as are the dogs that were originally bred for a purpose and the natural ability has been bred out of them so pet owners can brag they have a "registered dog".:rolleyes:

[Borzoi mad]

It may not matter what a dog looks like to a pet owner. But to someone that is dead serious about preserving a breed as it was intended, these deliberately bred off color dogs are walking disasters. Just as are the dogs that were originally bred for a purpose and the natural ability has been bred out of them so pet owners can brag they have a "registered dog".:rolleyes:

As you say Applesmon it may not matter to a pet owner but to a person who has been breeding for a lot of years and is serious about preserving the breed then colour does matter and I sympathise with these breeders after all the time and effort they and love they have put into preserving the breed if an off colour dog is deliberately bred. It would be most upsetting for them.

[Lilac]

I've been looking around and so far can only find pictures of the red Rotties. Pretty much the reds look like the red Dobbies only more blocky like the Rottie so I can imagine the blues and what not will look the same as a blue Dobbie only they are a Rottie.

I've also found several "breeders" selling these "rare" dogs. Ugh, taking advantage of people who don't know any better is wrong and I can't stand it. Not to mention their dogs looked more like mixes or very poor examples of the breed that should have been fixed.

I don't see anything wrong with the reds coming out like the red Dobbies have, as long as they maintain a breed standard not get sloppy and just breed to get the color, which I'm sure will happen. Also they need to stop telling people they are some rare breed of dog.

However I do find it disgusting that the reds, wavy coated and the whites are the result of excessive inbreeding and usually have several other medical problems due to the heavy inbreeding. The whites or albinos are disgusting, and the ultimate form that they have been inbred to death for their "rare color". They remind me of the white Boxers who usually end up deaf or with other severe medical problems.

However I've read somewhere that the Blue rotties are accepted in Germany as well as the AKC as an original breed. As long as it has all the other signs of a nicely bred Rottie of course.

[Chaz]

People will say anything to make money, like saying that the red rottie is rare, I wonder if they do get problems if the breeders will take them back, I've been told that there meant to but I don't think they do. Off topic but this shows how much money means to breeders, when we got are last dogs which were jack russels cross yorkies, the dogs were siblings but as we brought a male and female (Max and Penny) the breeder said that if them two were to have puppies then he wants to sell them because Penny was completely black, we said no and took them home only to find out that Penny already had a hernia from improper handling and Max had a genetic problem with his legs. These dogs cost £125 to buy and when Max got grew it was thought that he would have to go in a doggy wheelchair this is how bad that breeder was, we don't know whether they was inbred or not.