German Shepherds, Standard

[sheplovr]

Historyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd_Dog
The German Shepherd breed was invented by "Captain Max" von Stephanitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_von_Stephanitz) in 1899. His first German Shepherd, named Horand von Grafrath, is the genetic basis for the German Shepherd as we know it today.
The German Shepherd was originally conceived as a sheep-herding dog, hence its name. Throughout the years, the specific working drives of tracking, obedience, and protection have been intentionally highlighted in the breed by selective breeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_breeding), making German Shepherds very well-suited for active working (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_dog) environments.

_Characteristics

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Pastor_alem%C3%A1n_galego.JPG/180px-Pastor_alem%C3%A1n_galego.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pastor_alem%C3%A1n_galego.JPG)
A German Shepherd being active


German Shepherds are highly intelligent and agile dogs, with a strong work drive. They are often deployed in various roles such as police (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog), guarding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_dog), search and rescue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_Rescue), therapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapy_dog), service-dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_dog), and in the military (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_dog) applications.
German Shepherds are often bred to conform to accepted breed appearance standards ("conformation line"), or for work function ("working line").
Conformation line dogs ideally possess an excellent balance of proper physical appearance for the breed and minimal working instincts (herding, prey drive, etc.) They are specifically bred to conform to the published breed standards for appearance, temperament, and health. Conformation line dogs are often found as pets, in breeder environments, and in competition.
Working line German Shepherds are typically excluded from the show ring as most don't conform to the breed standard for physical appearance. These dogs are bred to have an aggressive, enduring work drive, and unwavering obedience. Of critical importance is the dog's ability to distinguish what constitutes a threat and what does not constitute a threat. Dogs that cannot make that distinction are eliminated from police and military programs. Extremely well-suited for police and military work, these dogs are also suitable as pets for home environments, though for owners should be familiar with their dog's abilities and needs. Working line dogs are employed in many police departments and government organizations such as the ATF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BATFE), the U.S. Marshals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marshals_Service), and Customs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement).



Physical appearance

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Owczarek_alzacki_n765.jpg/180px-Owczarek_alzacki_n765.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Owczarek_alzacki_n765.jpg)
A black-and-red German Shepherd with saddle markings


Exact standards for the breed vary by country and organization, but the following criteria are generally part of the definition.
The German Shepherd Dog is a large and strong dog, typically between 75 and 95lbs, but have been known to reach 130lbs. The fur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fur) is a double-coat (under coat and outer coat). While some organizations accept long-haired German Shepherds, short-haired dogs are typically (and historically) preferred.
There are many color variations. For conformation-line dogs, the most common ones are black-and-tan and black-and-red. Combinations containing silver, blue, liver, or very light hues such as cream are typically considered faulty. All-black is usually, but not always, accepted. A white German Shepherd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berger_Blanc_Suisse) is automatically disqualified from entering the show ring.
Working-line dogs are typically black-and-tan, black-and-brown, blue-and-tan, or brown-and-liver.
There are several different color-marking patterns. For conformation-line dogs, the "saddle" marking is probably the most well-known. This consists of a large black patch on the upper and mid back, extending partway down the dog's sides. The "sable" marking, which consists of one color with randomly-sized and -shaped patches or swaths of different-colored hair mixed in, is typical for working-line dogs. Some sable-pattern dogs have three colors in their coat; this is called agouti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agouti_gene). The other popular marking is called "bi-color", and consists of a dog that is all one color (typically black) save for differently-colored paws and lower legs, and sometimes a swath on the belly.
German Shepherds are easily identifiable by their large head, ears which stand straight up, and sleek and low back end. They also have a distinctive gait, as well as other breed-specific features.
Disqualifications for conformation-line dogs include white nails, a nose which isn't all-black, a muzzle which isn't predominantly black, non-erect ears, and very light-toned eyes.

Temperament

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/GSD_and_a_baby.jpg/180px-GSD_and_a_baby.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GSD_and_a_baby.jpg)
A German Shepherd playing with a baby.


The breed has a personality marked by direct, fearless willingness to protect what it considers its "den" (i.e. house, car, and property in a home situation) and "pack" (i.e. human family in a home situation). It is poised, but when the occasion demands, eager and alert; both fit and willing to serve in its capacity as a companion, watchdog, guide dog for people who are blind, herding dog, or guardian, whichever the circumstances may demand.
Proper socialization as a puppy is one of the two key factors which determines what a dog's temperament will be as an adult. Genetics is the other. They go hand-in-hand; a dog with poor genetics cannot be trained to be stable and friendly, and by the same token the best genetics are meaningless if the dog is not well-socialized as a puppy. Ideally, a German Shepherd should be alert and fearless in defense of its den and pack, but loving and non-aggressive within the home environment.

Health

As is common of many large breeds, German Shepherds are susceptible to elbow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbow_dysplasia) and hip dysplasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_dysplasia). So-called "ethical breeders" work very hard to breed these traits out of their dogs, so that the dog may enjoy a pain-free life and stay suited for work situations. These breeders typically require that their puppies' hips and elbows be x-rayed, and the x-rays approved and certified by the OFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthopedic_Foundation_for_Animals) when the puppy is fully-grown (age 2), in order for the puppy to be allowed to be bred.
Other health problems sometimes occurring in the breed are von Willebrand's disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Willebrand%27s_disease), skin allergies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergy) and canine degenerative myelopathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_degenerative_myelopathy). German Shepherds, like all large bodied dogs, are also prone to bloat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloat).
All Imported Shepherds are sables, black n red pigment with very black saddlebacks, so traditional and standard of a true German Shepherd that started in Germany by Max...

[melissa2007]

Thanks for the info on Sheppards, now I got the info I need when looking at a Sheppard to know if it is any good or not to judge.
Great Thread as there are many Sheppard owners on this site they may find this interesting

[Nicolelj]

Most all Imported Shepherds are sables, black n red pigment with very black saddlebacks, so traditional and standard of a true German Shepherd that started in Germany by Max...

Ummm where is the satistics to prove that most all imported shepherds are teh colors you posted? Because I know of many people that import whites as well as export them. Along with full blacks, black and tans and many of the other colors that the GSD breed come in.

Not trying to argue. Just would like to see your satistics that you base your info on or if it is just opinion based on your own personal opinion and knowledge.

The copied info you posted though is a good link. Glad they give the link to the BBS info too.

Nicole & Ronan

[melissa2007]

Do you have statistics to prove whites are being imported also, that would clear things up :D

[Gideon's_Girl]

Thats absolutely pawsome, LOVE IT! :)

[sheplovr]

Amanda did you tell me he is imported also? I forget somebody told me and today I met a new member that imports also. She has a long coat too. Pretty, dark pigment.

[Nicolelj]

Do you have statistics to prove whites are being imported also, that would clear things up :D

Nope I have no statistics I know because of the people I talk to and also by looking at the pedigrees of various dogs. So it is my personal opinion.

But then I did not say "Most all" Shep did. That is why I asked to see statisitcs because I know that not all imported German Shepherd dogs are the ones she listed. That the other colors are also and with out statisitcs to prove that "Most all" of certian colors are imported then it is just personal opinion and not fact so should not be taken or stated as fact. That is why I also asked if it is her own personal opinion(and nothing wrong with that) or if it is fact. And if it is fact to please list where she got the info or statistics from so we can all see it too.

Nicole & Ronan

[Gideon's_Girl]

no but his parents were! would that be imported?

[sheplovr]

I always post the link from info I find plenty of, sorry you missed it on top of page. U can read what I posted and where from. It is not just my opinion, just what I breed for. I learned from Germans Nicole, I ask if they have or show white shepherds, Gerti said: No we not get papers from SV for them???
I should go over to Germany and look around, been invited but do not care for the way they live, at least my friends, it is tooo different than the way I am used to doing things.

[Nicolelj]

I saw the link you posted at teh top. There is no info on statisitcs to what colors are imported the most or all of. Just info to the article you posted. It is the statisitcs I am asking about that you base you info for what colors are imported. So if you can post that ilink I would appreciate it. If there is not one and it is personal opinion on your part based on info from friends then that is fine too. Just say it is personal opinion not fact.

As for whites in Germany and being bred I can post the link to the site that lists all the breeders there agian if you like. I think I shared it with you on another thread before.
Nicole & Ronan

[Nicolelj]

http://www.whiteshepherd.info/breederspage.htm

This link will take you to the International White Shepherd Breeders page. As you can see with a quick look there are many breeders in Germany who breed white Shepherds. And many of the breeders on that page also export to other countries as well.
Nicole & Ronan

[Gideon's_Girl]

those dogs Nicolelj are truley magnificent looking dogs, wow they look magical! :)

[Gideon's_Girl]

http://www.dogforum.org/gallery/data/500/tulipe_web_.jpg

:wubsmiley:

[Nicolelj]

those dogs Nicolelj are truley magnificent looking dogs, wow they look magical! :)

I totally agree. That is why the White Shepherd will always be my heart dog.
Nicole & Ronan

[Gideon's_Girl]

really pretty, but you still gotta love this face

http://www.dogforum.org/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC03042.JPG :wubsmiley:

my baby! :)

[sheplovr]

The few Germans mentioned only gave me emails no sites. Netherlands sells junk dogs one needs to be most careful and know who your dealing with. I know you cannot get SV papers if no papers you do not get AKC papers then as you need to fill out a foreign applications, two photos front and side, send $50 and hope they approve, I never been turned down. I have great contacts in Germany and thinking of importing a male about a year. They do hips n elbows also at one year and had some redone here only to find they are exactly what is stamped on the Korzucht papers Pink ones that accompany each dog.

[Nicolelj]

Netherlands sells junk dogs

OUch. Your lumping a whole country of people into one lump. That is truely sad. Just like any country you will find good breeders and bad ones. But you can't lump all the breeders in one country together like that and insult them all and make a claim like that.

You said Most all imported GSD's are of certian colors. I asked for proof, you have none. Ok so then it is your opinion. That is fine. Then I was asked for proof that whites are exported. Well I give a whole page of a ton of breeders many of which import and export. Why you felt the need to insult a whole country of people I have no idea. All I wanted to know is if your statement was based on fact or opinion is all. So far all I see is a lot of opinion(and that is fine).
Nicole & Ronan

[sheplovr]

I love that photo so much you won our contest, now that is a dog Amanda, super cooooollllll, Happy Thanksgiving honey. :p

[Gideon's_Girl]

I love that photo so much you won our contest, now that is a dog Amanda, super cooooollllll, Happy Thanksgiving honey. :p

aww thanks ever so much! :D and U2

[sheplovr]

Thank you for the sincere nice comment. I think red, black, grey sables are nice, but the real look is blk/red West German Shepherd. I will not lower myself to argue over Trivia when it is a FACT that the pure German Shepherd is what it is that "Cap. Max" vom Stephonitz in 1889 founded the true German Shepherd in Germany and we follow his standards to the facts known. He would just turn a flip in his grave if Breeders he seen now days are doing what they are, misusing the dogs in color, looks, loyalty, intelligence that is so wrong, but I am like I said: Not lowering myself to their standard they like and breed for???? I have better things to do with my time, no kids, no family, just me and my dogs to feed, clean and look after, my home also, very particular about that also. lol.

[springtime]

Absolutely right sheplovr....by the way, how's the whelping going?
As for the e-mails posted they aren't worth much without a website....all reputable breeders have websites so we can do research on their dogs.

[skunkstripe]

http://www.whiteshepherd.info/breederspage.htm

This link will take you to the International White Shepherd Breeders page. As you can see with a quick look there are many breeders in Germany who breed white Shepherds. And many of the breeders on that page also export to other countries as well.
Nicole & Ronan
Nicole if I look at that link you posted and click on FCI breed standard I get the info for the "Weisser Schweizer Schäferhund." Correct me if I am wrong, but the FCI always allows the country of origin to set the standard, correct? So this breed is not recognized by the large registries in the US and Canada but is recognized in "Mitteleuropa?" Or is it more complicated than that?

[Nicolelj]

As for the e-mails posted they aren't worth much without a website....all reputable breeders have websites so we can do research on their dogs.

That is so incorrect it is funny. Not all reputable breeders have websites. Some prefer not to use the web to advertise, others just do not like computers, others are too busy, there is a long list of why a reputable breeder would not have a website.
Nicole & Ronan

[Nicolelj]

Nicole if I look at that link you posted and click on FCI breed standard I get the info for the "Weisser Schweizer Schäferhund." Correct me if I am wrong, but the FCI always allows the country of origin to set the standard, correct? So this breed is not recognized by the large registries in the US and Canada but is recognized in "Mitteleuropa?" Or is it more complicated than that?

The white color is seen as a fault. And through the FCI now has seperated into it's own breed, thank goodness. It is recognized through the FCI as a BBS or Berger Blanc Suisse. Through the UKC it is recognized as a White Shepherd. Through the CKC and AKC it is recognized as still a GSD just white in color. And the color is only seen as a fault. Nothing else.

I posted the link to prove 2 points. One that there are breeders in Germany that breed whites and two that there are breeders that export and import. There are many breeders of whites all over the world. SOme are good breeders and some bad. Just like in all breeds.
Nicole & Ronan

[CorgiDad]

I have a question about the looks of the GSD. When I was growing up (many moons ago) They didn't look like they do today. Back then they were upright and not stooped in the back like something's wrong with their hind legs. What gives with this? I don't really like that look much as it looks like their frightened. That's what my dog does when he's spooked-hind quarters go down in the back.

[sheplovr]

It comes from the strength of the working dogs. It is often referred to as Banana back or roached. It makes them stronger if that makes any sense? Straight backs with a steep croup slope makes the rears of American Bred Shepherds very weak. They most only show, that is it. Rarely does one herd, too hard on them. German Dogs from Germany as mine are, work, show only in Seiger shows, meaning only against the foreign Shepherds of thousands. Not American shows of AKC etc. Notice the stance how they are litterly standing almost on their hocks on back legs, very weak stance or stack. Notice the normal stack the shepherd stands with leg to camera back, front directly under the shoulder. they are powerful dogs and even more so is the East German Shepherds that the K-9 trainers use as they are very high ball drive. when stacked one does not notice the back line so much as a normal standing position. Look at mine, do they look crippled, depends alot on lines also.

[melissa2007]

Another question, when looking through my Dogs Annual there was an add for a breeder that bred white and Panda sheppards, I never knew there were panda sheppards, they look like a border collie if you ask me. These Sheps are CKC reg, the parents were, how do you get black and white sheppards?is it another fault?

[melissa2007]

Hey I found the site with the white and Panda Sheps I told you about
http://www.furrarikennels.com/
Now you can see for yourself

[Nicolelj]

Marion (Furrari Kennels) is a wonderful breeder. Her handsome male Ryder was the sire of Sheena's litter this summer. I have no problem contacting her to join this forum if you would like to ask any questions of her. She is my mentor in the breeding of White Shepherds.
Nicole & Ronan

[Nicolelj]

They are not mixes. They are pure breds. the coloration is from two colored parents. All the info about the coloration is on teh site. Whether you like the coloration or not is personal opinion but don't trash a breeder or her dogs when you know nothing about them.
Nicole & Ronan

[melissa2007]

I just wanted to show others that there are Panda Sheps, I did not trash her dogs at all, i even refrained from using the word Mutt becaus you found it mean.
All I said was if you want a dog that looks like that go to the pound, we are all allowed our personal opinions

[Nicolelj]

yup you can have the opinion of not liking the coloration as I stated but do not post a website or talk about a breeder in negative tons when you do not know them or their dogs. I will defend Marion because she is a very reputable and knowlegable lady who has taught me so much and is the nicest person I know. So you can have the opinion of not liking the color but watch what you say or insinuate about her dogs or her breedings or her as a breeder.
Nicole & Ronan

[skunkstripe]

Hey guys, do please remember to keep things respectful. Strong opinions are fine and are welcomed, but do keep in mind that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Nicolelj]

That is your opinion and you are entilted to it.
Nicole & Ronan

[furrari]

Hello Everyone,
Yep...I'm the infamous Breeder (Furrari Shepherds) that dares to breed not one, but TWO show-ring disqualified GSDs (due to their coat color.)
Most certainly if you have any questions I'd be MORE than happy to answer them for you. This way you will be sure to get the story "right from the horses mouth"
((Smile))
Marion
PS/ Nichole is right, our white dogs are indeed Canadian Kennel Club AND American Kennel Club registered, and can do all activities EXCEPT show, due to their disqualification (no longer a fault now Nichole, although it was when we still showed against the Black and Tans) from the show ring in USA in 1968 and in Canada in 1998, because of ...Coat Color.
On saying this, I believe at this time there is still Nothing in the Can. standard of the GSD that states the Panda cannot be shown...although I'm sure that won't be long in coming.

[Gideon's_Girl]

welcome to the forum though! :)

[furrari]

LOL!
Thank You for the Welcome!
LOL!
Marion

[melissa2007]

I told Skunk I will behave :D
yes welcome, even though we have diffrent thoughts i don't believe you to be a bad person, i just want you to know that

[Gideon's_Girl]

me 2

[kender]

Wow I just got home from work and got to have my first look at the panda shephards... I think they're GORGEOUS >.< The plain black and white bi-colored is not my favorite but the tri-colored black white and tan *swoon* what a beautiful coloration on that breed.

Let's keep in mind folks - as time goes on - things can and should change sometimes. Stagnant ideals and rigid regulations have to be overthrown occassionally for civilizations and societies to thrive (why can't you say the same about breed conformational guidelines?) As long as their health is the first concern and they don't breed them in spite of health concerns (lethal white collies come to mind MM-->MM) then I personally would support the colors.

AKC/CKC may one day add these dogs to the conformational standards no? There are plenty of dogs that were once not allowed to show and now they are it's all about people being devoted to going against the grain for what they believe.

I don't want to stir the pot, I just wanted to let furrari know that I think her dogs are absolutely gorgeous once again and welcome to the forum.

[furrari]

Why, Thank You again....Nice of you to think that, and to say it.
I too harbor no ill will toward any of you ...lifes too short.
I just like to know that if information is given out on my Whites or my Pandas, that this information is true and accurate. That's all.
Please...if you DO happen to have a question...please feel free to ask it and I will answer to the best of my ability.
Marion

[Gideon's_Girl]

im sorry i just dont agree with breeding and selling a dog with faults in the breed. i love my german shepherd and will defend the breed till my last breath!

[furrari]

Thank You Kender for that lovely welcome.
You are right...unless someone steps up to the plate for these dogs, they would be gone in no time. I am sure some of you would like that, but others of you who know that nothing is ever gained by the loss of one single species will understand why I have fallen in love with this GSD. Remember...the coat may fool you but this is a GSD!!
Marion

[melissa2007]

Don't you believe that the breeds have standards for a reason?and that we should not just change a breed because we prefer it a diffrent way?

[furrari]

Yes I am breeding a fault...proudly. I, and people like me over many years now, have saved the white coated GSD from extinction.
I, and people like me, & after I'm gone will also save the Panda from the same fate.
If the nay sayers care to know, both the white dogs (most breeders...not all) and the Pandas would eventually LOVE to be their own breed, seperate and apart from the GSD breed.
Marion

[applesmom]

The reason we're seeing more and more color variations within purebreds has to do with the change in attitude towards dogs over the years.

Before the advent of designer dogs, breeders didn't pass their genetic mistakes off as "rare" purebreds. Some breeders actually killed mismarked puppies at birth. Others placed them without papers and had them spayed or neutered to be sure they could never reproduce the undesireable traits.

Years ago breeders were dedicated to the purity of their chosen breed. If the puppies didn't fit the standard they made sure they never had a chance to reproduce. Today many are dedicated to nothing but how many puppies they can produce and how much money they can make off of what would have once been considered a disaster by ethical breeders.

In some breeds the old time breeders were wrong, even though they were 100 percent convinced they were doing the right thing at the time.

One of those breeds was the German Shepherd which has ocassionally produced white puppies since the breed was developed. Another is the German Shorthaired Pointer. In Germany Black is a recognized color even in the show ring. For some reason American breeders chose not to accept black as acceptable and the occasional black puppy was not allowed to survive or wasn't acknowledged as a purebred.

Now that black GSP's have been imported from Germany there is a heated disagreement between parent club members as whether or not to alllow the Black to be shown. Eventually it will be accepted in the show ring just as it has been in field events.

In my opinion where the new crop of breeders of "rare" colors are doing a huge disservice to any breed is when they breed for color only without regard to the overall standard.

[kender]

they are faults in the breed, and she is just breeding faults!

What I was trying to say is that faults are only faults until someone gets the standard changed -- which can and has been done before. Registries are constantly being changed - new breeds being added and conformational standards being updated. One day this coloration may not be considered a fault anymore.

So yes, she's breeding a current fault (as stated by some registries) but her dogs are healthy. Let's keep in mind these "standards" are written by man - and can be changed by man. You keep on loving the black and tan or whatever color shephard you like but if her dogs are healthy and there are people that like these dogs - they know they won't be showing these dogs in the AKC ring when they buy the dog, they buy based on personal preference.

Maybe someone will love the panda shephard so much that they will keep getting petitions and having form after form sent in to the AKC and set up meetings with them and case study after case study to prove why they should be considered another variation of the breed standard --- then maybe one day this will be recognized by AKC too!

After writing this something comes to mind -- there was once a man in history that wanted to get rid of the "faults" of human attributes such as dark hair, dark eyes, etc.... I'm glad we stood against him or else the Human registry wouldn't allow me to breed :) Ok now I sound like a hippy :P Peace man!

[sheplovr]

Applaud Applaud........amen By A Good Breeder Said....

[Gideon's_Girl]

thank you applesmom!

[iwantmypup]

Yes I am breeding a fault...proudly. I, and people like me over many years now, have saved the white coated GSD from extinction.
I, and people like me, & after I'm gone will also save the Panda from the same fate.
If the nay sayers care to know, both the white dogs (most breeders...not all) and the Pandas would eventually LOVE to be their own breed, seperate and apart from the GSD breed.
Marion
Hello! Welcome to the forum..I truely mean that:)

Now. Sorry..as it is hard to tell what people are trying to say on the web.. are you being sarcastic about you are proud to breed "faults"...?

Just curious;)

-ALi

[Nicolelj]

Marion. So glad to see you. Go a way for a few hours and come back to find my mentor here. Thanks for correcting me. I still get mixed up on the faults versus dq thing. lol.

By the way Ajax is a dream come true. Ryder out did himself with all his boys. Polar is doing fabulous with the trainer and she has only positive things to say. He is well on his way to Service work. I will snd you some new pictures of my new son soon.

I am glad your here. Always best to get the true info from the people who are in the know about these things.
Nicole & Ronan

[iwantmypup]

I seriously don't think furrari is wasting her time. She was defending herself because her link was posted. And she is defending The White Shepherds and Panda Shepherds.

[furrari]

We all know what the true standard of the shepherd is and says.
We all know that the white and the panda do not conform to the standard. THAT is why these dogs will be called something else in future (Meaning NOT GSDs), and no longer be in the GSD breeding pool.
BUT right now they are still GSDs only a different color. I'm sorry to upset and distress some so greatly and terribly, but maybe it is time to look at life fully and totally. There sure is a lot more to be upset about than what little old me is doing in my neck of the woods.
((Smile))
Marion
And yes, I am proud of what I breed...as every dedicated breeder should be.

[furrari]

I suppose it will be off topic to say ...Hello Nichole?
Thank you for the Welcome?

[iwantmypup]

I think this thread will be done by the time we all check in in the morning. But it's not closed yet...

That's coolish...and interesting Marion:) Thanks for clearing it up for me!

_ali

[Nicolelj]

We all know what the true standard of the shepherd is and says.
We all know that the white and the panda do not conform to the standard. THAT is why these dogs will be called something else in future (Meaning NOT GSDs), and no longer be in the GSD breeding pool.
BUT right now they are still GSDs only a different color. I'm sorry to upset and distress some so greatly and terribly, but maybe it is time to look at life fully and totally. There sure is a lot more to be upset about than what little old me is doing in my neck of the woods.
((Smile))
Marion
And yes, I am proud of what I breed...as every dedicated breeder should be.


I can't wait for that day to arrive when our gorgeous whites are a seperate breed. They deserve their own status in my opinion. and your right every dedicated breeder should be proud of what they breed. I certianly am.
Nicole & Ronan

[Nicolelj]

I suppose it will be off topic to say ...Hello Nichole?
Thank you for the Welcome?

Howdy howdy. Derek sends his hugs and hellos too. And wants to know when he can come crash at your place agian. lol I think I might be working the poor dear too hard. lol

I know my husband is totally in love with the panda's and made me promise that some day we will have one. He was lucky enough to meet Marions dogs and he wanted to bring them all home. lol
Nicole & Ronan

[furrari]

And Thank You iwantmypup.
You are absolutly right!
((Smile))
Marion

[melissa2007]

This thread was on GSD, not white shepherds or panda shepherds, wouldn't it be great to start your own white shep thread?with lots of info and things

[Nicolelj]

This thread was on GSD, not white shepherds or panda shepherds, wouldn't it be great to start your own white shep thread?with lots of info and things

ummm your the one that brought it up. So now you want it to stop? Why? if you didn't want it discussed here then why bring it up here?

And the white and panda are still considered GSDs. For now anyway. And this is a GSD thread.
Nicole & Ronan

[melissa2007]

I just asked if Pandas met the standard didn't I? and my question was answered in many ways and it just kepy going on.
This thread is about GSD standard and conformation, white GSD are a serparate breed so it is off topic

[Nicolelj]

One of my favorite whites that comes as close to the GSD standard in structure that I have ever seen is a white called Fox Mulder. Here is a picture of him:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/NicoleLJ_2003/foxmulder.jpg

He is out of a Kennel in Brazil. Whether you call him a GSD or a WS he is gorgeous either way.
Nicole & Ronan

[applesmom]

I just asked if Pandas met the standard didn't I? and my question was answered in many ways and it just kepy going on.
This thread is about GSD standard and conformation, white GSD are a serparate breed so it is off topic

The white shepherd isn't a separate breed any more than the black GSP is a separate breed. They're both still registrable but currently the color is a disqualification in the show ring. This will change for the GSP through the parent club, but the white shepherd advocates apparently don't want their breed to be accepted.

[Nicolelj]

The white shepherd isn't a separate breed any more than the black GSP is a separate breed. They're both still registrable but currently the color is a disqualification in the show ring. This will change for the GSP through the parent club, but the white shepherd advocates apparently don't want their breed to be accepted.

I would prefer if we seperated instead of being accepted into the GSD standard agian.
Nicole & Ronan

[furrari]

I was quite enjoying it too. But it is bed time for me and so off I go.
I don't usually go on to lists or forums so don't know the protocol, so I guess I just follow the crowd and say ...
"Done"
LOL!!!
Thank you all the folks who see the "light" on this topis and for those who don't...that is quite alright. If it is not me you trash it will be someone else. So let it be me, 'cause I simply don't care one hoot. LOL!
Ok, Done!

[applesmom]

I would prefer if we seperated instead of being accepted into the GSD standard agian.
Nicole & Ronan

What's the purpose in seperation Are they planning to change the physical or temperament standard for the white german shepherd?

[Monkey]

hmm Im no breeder.. However I have read up a little on the topic and I know a few breeders. I also know a girl that has been one of the people to develop Silken Windhound. It's like a long haired whippet, very cute..

Point is...

No breeding without a goal, dogs that don't fit conform or mentality etc is wrong. That I can agree upon.

BUT, new races, new sorts, variations, IF done correctly, is THAT wrong?

Like the people who wanted to have the Silken Windhound, they have a book, the keep track of the breeding lines, the genes etc to make the race a homogentic race so they can get approved by the FCI, not sure if they have yet or not. Was a couple of years ago since I spoke with her.

I don't know how furraris kennels does it, maybe she has also a developed and devoted network with people who do keep track and want to make this new variation and make something serious out of it? It looked like a lot of people jumped the gun without really knowing.

I haven't read EVERYTHING to bits and peices so I might miss information but is different that bad as long as healthy and good mentality is nr 1? and that the other things are done right.

and if we disregard the furrarris, is creating a variation or soemthing new (again in a serious matter) wrong?

In sweden the POLICE tried to create schabrador, german shepherd and labrador mix. This t get the labs nose, and shepherds guards etc..
However they couldn't get the mix homogenetic so they gave up on it.

Just my two cents, but I don't know so much about it so maybe I should just keep quiet..

However... People makes misstake and by being angry at them wont really improve things if you think it's a misstake the person did..

another tiny thought..

Now Im gonna be quiet and sneak out of this thread..

Moooo

[skunkstripe]

First things first: furrari, welcome to the forum. :)

As usual there are very strong opinions and emotions both on what the GSD is meant to be and when is it appropriate to breed to or against the standard. At this point (10 pages) there has been a lot of ground covered and information exchanged so I am going to close the thread. Thank you all for your contributions.