Pitbull racism.. seriously... GRRRR

[Monkey]

Ok guys.. I just got this in my mail box...

" Did you know that Loudoun County Animal Shelter in Virginia has a ban against adopting ANY pit bulls, even after they have been tested and found to be 100% adoptable?

Guess what???? The Board of Supervisors has just upheld that absurd rule by a 6 - 3 vote!!!!

Bottom line......any pit bull that is not reclaimed by their owners REGARDLESS of temperament, will be 'KILLED'!!

The Supervisor's reasoning is that this is a breed associated with dogfights and attacks and therefore should not be allowed into homes..."

This they did previous also but it wasnt official, that is what the cop told me when I found Missy in Richmond, VA. That was one of the reasons why I kept her... and now I read this.. it makes me FURIOUS..

[skunkstripe]

Wow. I went to their website, and they have survey results on it from residents and non-residents. Pretty emotional stuff there! But bottom line, 2/3 of the residents disagree! That is awful! :swearing:

[applesmom]

It's a sad situation that the dogs have to pay for humans greed and ignorance!

As you said in another thread Monkey, apparently the area is heavily over-populated with free roaming pits bred and owned by irresponsible humans. Dog fighting is popular there!

The animal shelter is expected to clean up the mess created by these individuals and protect the dogs that come into their care. At the same time they're legally, financially and morally responsible for the safety of the people who adopt their dogs.

Since there is no way of knowing anything about the past history of the pits they take in and not enough knowledgeable applicants to adopt them, they have little choice in the matter. Just one wrong placement could put them out of business and then they wouldn't be able to help any dogs!

Even though it's not written policy in my area; over 50 percent of the dogs put to death in our shelters are pits and pit mixes. In other words, it's rare that a pit gets adopted out here too.

IMO this is a case of don't shoot the messenger!

[Monkey]

Well they should have more knowledge than me and I can sort them out, dogs that are suitable for homes and not.. so they should be able to too.

That is why I can't really have acceptance for it. Fine I can understand aggressive dogs or partially aggressive or even troubled..
But look at Missy.. she had none whatsoever.. sure she can turn ito snappy gator where she plays way to rough but all she needed was some proper training...

THAT is the difference...

[applesmom]

Well they should have more knowledge than me and I can sort them out, dogs that are suitable for homes and not.. so they should be able to too.

That is why I can't really have acceptance for it. Fine I can understand aggressive dogs or partially aggressive or even troubled..
But look at Missy.. she had none whatsoever.. sure she can turn ito snappy gator where she plays way to rough but all she needed was some proper training...

THAT is the difference...

Even if the staff at the shelter had the qualifications to temperament test the dogs, there aren't enough qualifiied adopters. We've had several cases here where someone adopted a pit only to use it as a bait dog. The dog still ended up dead; but only after enduring extreme additional suffering.

It's a dilemma that isn't going to go away as long as the mentality of fighting dogs for sport exists

[Monkey]

no not enough adopters.. that might be the case too.. but please give them a chance.. not just BAM Dead... that is over the top for me..

[applesmom]

no not enough adopters.. that might be the case too.. but please give them a chance.. not just BAM Dead... that is over the top for me..

If there's no one that wants them, who are they going to give them a chance with?

If some kindhearted individual set up a sanctuary consisting of hundreds of acres for pits that are doomed to die just because they're pits; they'd be full to capacity in less than 6 months.

Every pit bull breeder in the country should be forced to work at a shelter for just one month. Maybe then they'd get a full grasp on the tragedy they've created.:rolleyes:

As a matter of fact, every breeder of any breed should be forced to work at a shelter for a month! IMO

[MoJo]

Very sad situation indeed.

[danny123]

In other areas of the country pitts are banned, so I guess this is much the same. Applesmom is right...there just aren't enough adopters to take them all in. After all the publicity about them I would never adopt one myself as I don't think I would be experienced or qualified to know how to handle that breed, others might feel the same way. If the staff were to adopt a pitt out to a family and that dog maimed someone, I'm sure the shelter would be held responsible and sued over it. It's a hard call....

[staffilover]

The Supervisor's reasoning is that this is a breed associated with dogfights and attacks and therefore should not be allowed into homes..."



the thing is they are not being allowed because theres not enough room, they're not being allowed simlpy because they are "pitbulls"
why shouldnt they have places the same as any other breed, disgusting.

[applesmom]

the thing is they are not being allowed because theres not enough room, they're not being allowed simlpy because they are "pitbulls"
why shouldnt they have places the same as any other breed, disgusting.

I agree, it's disgusting that there are so many pit bulls being produced every year that there will never be enough homes for all of them.

[sheplovr]

I am a good dog person, trainer, breeder and dog lover, but I would Not adopt a Pittbull. I have seen too many good ones turn on children. It is because of the breedings of them and fighting them the lines are all messed up now. Dogs raised in homes including a half Pitt in my daughters husbands side tore off an ear of a 3 yr old child in front of the owner, of course a huge law suit in happening. I feel sorry for the breed but until they can control the dog fighters, gamblers, breeding lines strong enough to win, mixing lines rather than improve the temperment making them worse, I want no parts of one in my home. sorry.

[staffilover]

I agree, it's disgusting that there are so many pit bulls being produced every year that there will never be enough homes for all of them.

i think its disgusting that there are too many dogs produced each year,{whatever the breed} that there will never be enough homes for all of them.

[staffilover]

I am a good dog person, trainer, breeder and dog lover, but I would Not adopt a Pittbull. I have seen too many good ones turn on children. It is because of the breedings of them and fighting them the lines are all messed up now. Dogs raised in homes including a half Pitt in my daughters husbands side tore off an ear of a 3 yr old child in front of the owner, of course a huge law suit in happening. I feel sorry for the breed but until they can control the dog fighters, gamblers, breeding lines strong enough to win, mixing lines rather than improve the temperment making them worse, I want no parts of one in my home. sorry.

"There is no scientific proof that genetics cause a breed of dog to be aggressive, vicious or dangerous." - testimony from Standing Committee on amendments to the Dog Owners Liability Act. 2005

Citing the breed's history as a dog fighter, some people believe there is some kind of magic "dog fighting" gene or brain chemistry that is passed along from sire and dam to puppy. The truth is, there is no such thing. (Read the article from Dr. Gary Goeree, DVM, regarding the theory that 'pit bulls' have some kind of unique brain chemistry.)

[sheplovr]

No there is not a genetic gene that produces agressive dogs nor fighting dogs. But, like M. Vick knew what dogs worked and fought, others did not and were disposed of, hence, the lines came into his view to keep certain ones that were better for fighting, others rid of them. It is lines in a pedigree that can make a big difference. Not necessarily genes, but blood lines that click to make better fighting dogs. I have seen Pittys brought here by State Trooper that slept with 3 and swore by their temperments. His wife got pregnant, slowly one by one he PTS because of personality changes, we heard this from some of his friends. So, they were intelligent enough to sense a difference in the house taking place, something went badly wrong as he loved his 3 dogs so much to do this.
I know nothing of the blood lines of Pitts, nor what ones fight or do not, I just know M. Vick was into starting a breeding program for just plain fighting tough dogs that won.
I feel badly for this breed being tossed around and banned, but I truthfully would just not trust one to be inside my home alone with me, I am small and if it turned on me I am done!!!

[staffilover]

the reason these breeds are chosen for fighting by morons is their tenacity.

american pitbull terriers
staffordshire bull terriers rate higher in temperament tests then most "family" dogs. its not a dog problem, but a people problem.

[Canine-Expert]

I am so sick and tired or the low class leeching blood sucking vile and mentally wicked individuals who continually insist on taking on dogs termed dangerous or any of the large to giant breeds for the sake of boosting thier own egosentric and unfounded self pride. All this to the ultimate detrimental effect on the unwilling animal. Do a test, if you are a loving owner of say a pit bull, see what other individuals own such dogs, likely you will find them in the hands of gangsters or idiotic hill-billies that treat them like refuse,if you do own one of these so called "dangerous" dogs I hope you spit on everyone who treats thier dogs bad. Anyhow now that i have vented my spleen i feel better. There are only dangerous people (owners) not dangerous breeds, now if only governments showed common sense and saw this, but unfortunately common sense is in short supply and is all too uncommon.

[staffilover]

I am so sick and tired or the low class leeching blood sucking vile and mentally wicked individuals who continually insist on taking on dogs termed dangerous or any of the large to giant breeds for the sake of boosting thier own egosentric and unfounded self pride. All this to the ultimate detrimental effect on the unwilling animal. Do a test, if you are a loving owner of say a pit bull, see what other individuals own such dogs, likely you will find them in the hands of gangsters or idiotic hill-billies that treat them like refuse,if you do own one of these so called "dangerous" dogs I hope you spit on everyone who treats thier dogs bad. Anyhow now that i have vented my spleen i feel better. There are only dangerous people (owners) not dangerous breeds, now if only governments showed common sense and saw this, but unfortunately common sense is in short supply and is all too uncommon.

i partly agree with you, however not all people who own staffies, apbts etc have them to look tough, they see the goodness in this breed when i see one of these people using them as a weapon i could throw up and have been known to get into an argument or two over it..

[butterflies_184]

This is great, I just thought I would share this with everyone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1trl1FMUw&feature=related

[Sweet72947]

It is true that Loudoun County does not adopt pit bulls. They claim they will release them to rescue, but this is a lie. They do work with a few breed rescues, but they do not work with any rescues that will take pit bulls. I volunteer with Friends of Homeless Animals (http://www.foha.org) and we have tried to get Loudoun County to work with us, and they refuse. Homeless Animal Rescue Team (http://www.hart90.com) (HART) has been trying too, with no success. A pit bull (or pit bull lookalike) who ends up at Loudoun County has no second chances.

[Hazen 'n Mike]

That's ridiculous.:mad:

[skotup]

statistics there is a higher risk of dog attack with pit bulls. The redcross does not allow homosexuals to give blood because statistics show homosexuals blood has a higher risk of containing aids. We have to do what is best for humans over animals. Conservation is great as long as it doesnt effect humans, you cant take away humans land for the sake of some species of animal that might live there. In australia we have laws against grey hounds because they are bread to hunt and chase, pet grey hounds must be muzzled due to the higher risk associated with them and there is no exception with pit bulls either. They are mentally fighting breeds, pain to them causes rage, not submission.

[staffilover]

statistics there is a higher risk of dog attack with pit bulls. The redcross does not allow homosexuals to give blood because statistics show homosexuals blood has a higher risk of containing aids. We have to do what is best for humans over animals. Conservation is great as long as it doesnt effect humans, you cant take away humans land for the sake of some species of animal that might live there. In australia we have laws against grey hounds because they are bread to hunt and chase, pet grey hounds must be muzzled due to the higher risk associated with them and there is no exception with pit bulls either. They are mentally fighting breeds, pain to them causes rage, not submission.

are you for real?


Citing the breed's history as a dog fighter, some people believe there is some kind of magic "dog fighting" gene or brain chemistry that is passed along from sire and dam to puppy. The truth is, there is no such thing. (Read the article from Dr. Gary Goeree, DVM, regarding the theory that 'pit bulls' have some kind of unique brain chemistry.)
"Aggression is a behaviour, not a temperament."
There is no scientific proof that genetics cause a breed of dog to be aggressive, vicious or dangerous.


Fear:
Pit Bulls have “locking jaws.”

Fact:
“We found that the American Pit Bull Terriers did not have any unique mechanism that would allow these dogs to lock their jaws. There were no mechanical or morphological differences . . .”
Dr. I. Lehr Brisbin, University of Georgia

Fear:
Pit Bulls have massive biting power measuring in 1,000s of pounds of pressure per square inch. (PSI)

Fact:
On average, dogs bite with 320 lbs of pressure per square inch. The bite pressure of a German Shepherd, an American Pit Bull Terrier and a Rottweiler were tested. The American Pit Bull Terrier had the least amount of bite pressure of the three dogs tested.
Dr. Brady Barr, National Geographic

Fear:
Family pet pit bulls turn on their owners.
Fact:
No single neutered household pet pit bull has ever killed anyone.
Karen Delise, LVT, Independent Scholar and Author

Fear:
Pit Bulls attack without warning.

Fact:
“Pit Bulls signal like other dogs.”
The Institute of Animal Welfare and Behavior of the University of Veterinary Medicine, Hannover, Germany temperament tested over 1,000 dogs.

Fear:
Pit Bulls are “ticking time bombs” that turn on their owners.

Fact:
“No single, neutered household pet pit bull has ever killed anyone.”
Karen Delise, LVT, independent scholar, and Author.

Fear:
While there are some pit bulls with good temperaments, they are the exception not the rule.

Fact:
The American Temperament Test shows pit bulls consistently score above the average for all breeds tested, year in and year out!
The American Temperament Test Society, www.atts.org

Fear:
Pit Bulls are more dangerous than other dogs.

Fact:
“A dog is only as dangerous as its owner allows it to be.”
Diane Jessup, Founder of LawDogsUSA, Author, retired Animal Control Officer. (http://www.atts.org/)

Consider how the media reported four incidents that happened between August 18th and August 21st, 2007.
A study by the National Canine Research Council reveals biased reporting by the media, its devastating consequences for dogs and the toll it takes on public safety.

Consider how the media reported four incidents that happened between August 18th and August 21st:


August 18, 2007 - A Labrador mix attacked a 70-year-old man sending him to the hospital in critical condition. Police officers arrived at the scene and the dog was shot after charging the officers. This incident was reported in one article and only in the local paper.

August 19, 2007 - A 16-month old child received fatal head and neck injuries after being attacked by a mixed breed dog. This attack was reported two times by the local paper only.

August 20, 2007 - A 6-year-old boy was hospitalized after having his ear torn off and receiving severe bites to the head by a medium-sized mixed breed dog. This attack was reported in one article and only in the local paper.

August 21, 2007 - A 59-year-old woman was attacked in her home by two Pit bulls and was hospitalized with severe injuries.

This attack was reported in over two hundred and thirty articles in national and international newspapers, as well as major television news networks, including CNN, MSNBC and FOX.

"Clearly a fatal dog attack by an unremarkable breed is not as newsworthy as a non-fatal attack by a pit bull" says Karen Delise, researcher for the National Canine Research Council.

People routinely cite media coverage as “proof” that pit bulls are more dangerous than other dogs. Costly and ineffective public policy decisions are being made on the basis of such "proof". While this biased reporting is not only lethal to an entire population of dogs; sensationalized media coverage endangers the public by misleading them about the real factors in canine aggression.

source: animalfarmfoundation.org

[skunkstripe]

skoptup I wonder if you might share the statistics you have seen? I ask because what I have seen in the US has been unreliable, yet has mislead many people to think that indeed "Pit Bulls" have been responsible for a disproportionate number of attacks. If there are better statistics available, I for one am genuinely interested in seeing them.

[Spicy_VV]

I am a good dog person, trainer, breeder and dog lover, but I would Not adopt a Pittbull. I have seen too many good ones turn on children. It is because of the breedings of them and fighting them the lines are all messed up now. Dogs raised in homes including a half Pitt in my daughters husbands side tore off an ear of a 3 yr old child in front of the owner, of course a huge law suit in happening.

I understand some don't wish to own a Pit Bull, they like any other breed are not for everyone and they are also a big responsibility.

Dogs of any breed can have a bad temperament. Where I have lived the problem dogs have been GSD and ACD. One ACD ripped my friends Pits head open, had to be stapled back together. The dog also ripped a persons calf open. The black GSD which jumped the fence to attack my dog also attacked people. This doesn't mean the breeds as a whole are bad, byb ruins many breeds.

I think you should research the breed and get your facts correct.
Saying the Pit Bulls are messed up now because of dog fighting makes no sense. :confused:APBTs were once known to have great temperaments and really be an all around family dog. APBTs were specifically imported into the US as pit fighting dogs. This was over a 100yrs ago.

It is because of dog fighting that they are so human friendly. Most dogmen culled human aggressive dogs. Also they must be fighting with a referee and 2 handlers. Sometimes the dogs were conditioned/handled by people other then their owners. The dogs had to be separated during the fight. They needed a dog that wouldn't turn on them in the heat of battle with adrenaline pumping. A dog which would allow medical treatment and not bite out of fear/pain.

You have no facts to support this theory because the breed shows the opposite. Back when fighting was legal and before the felony laws/1976 Pit Bull attacks were not common. They were known for being great dogs in general. Around the 80s when they started to get popular with bybs and those looking for the macho dog is when bad temperaments came into play. Prior most most APBTs came from fighting stock, even pets or non fighting dog. One example is Petey of the Lil Rascals. He was smart, trainable and stable to be an actor and work around kids IMO. He was bred from fighting stock, his sire is one of the most well known dogs in APBT history.

Also back then dogs roamed free including APBTs bred for fighting that were purchased as pets. Back in this time it was common to see kids out and about playing with dogs roaming free, there was a lot more opportunity for dog bites/attacks but Pit Bull attacks would be very rare, dog attacks period were less common.
Not only have Pit Bulls attacks become common but dog attacks period have risen in this day and age. Bad breeders and poor ownership.

Some fighting dogs were also raised as family pets. Sometimes a dog was an adult who had never been inside nor around children but naturally took to them. CH Centipede would be an example. Centipede became a house dog and was well mannered intelligent. He allowed himself to be dressed up in dresses and drug around by little girls. What a dangerous fighting dog huh? He was also trained to fetch drinks. I've seen many dogs which can do this of course its not so tough to learn to open the fridge and grab a bottle, but he was a very smart dog with a good temperament. Doesn't sound messed up to me.

If a dog turns on a child (or anyone else) it isn't a good one. No matter the breed, there is an underlying problem. What you have just mentioned reminds me of something. A friend of mine has owned APBTs for awhile, has a young daughter and son. His son and brother are actually the same age, he has siblings much younger then himself. His parents always ripped on his for having Pit Bulls around his kids. What happens? His parents 9month old Border Collie ripped his 3yr old brothers ear off. :(

I have been raised around "dangerous" breeds. Yet the only instance of aggression was a Chow which bit me in the face (this dog was also not raised by my family and taken in for a short time). We never had any other instance of aggression towards us kids by the "dangerous" breeds. The only problem dog we had besides a few grumpy small dogs when I was younger was a dalmatian, which attacked my mother, she beat the dog off with a large branch. The dangerous breeds were fine, shepherds, rotts, huskies, boxers, pit bulls, ect. A Pit Bull was my babysitter, a good companion. He let me drag him around, lay on him, do whatever without a complaint. He wasn't aggressive and was extremely intelligent. He was a good one, a good dog is trustworthy around children. If a dog can't be trusted around kids its worthless in my book.

Most the Pit Bulls attacking people are NOT fighting dogs nor are they bred for fighting. I know I can't verify this 100% but the stories I have looked into didn't indicate this. Most seem to be house pets or neglected outside dogs probably of poor breeding. Some were actually intended as guard dogs but killed an innocent child. Only a small percentage showed that they were used to fight and/or the owner worked to make them as aggressive as possible towards anything - person or animal. The Pits I personally know with temperament problems were not bred for fighting nor used for fighting. Most are scatterbred byb house pets.
Sadly a few of the dogs have been bred and passed this onto their offspring. DH cousin breeds Pit mixes with bad temperaments. His own mother will not even get a pup from him, that is her words. She doesn't want a mutt or a man biter. Only one man aggressive dog I know (or knew she was PTS) was bred for fighting, there were some well known fighting dogs 3 gens back or so. She was kind of like an excited biter which is bad too! If they want to fight, have a high prey drive, or want something else, they are not supposed to bite a person to get what they want. All the rest have been either mixed or pure without a solid bloodline, just generations of pet breeding and a few have been from bully lines (of which some are rumored to be mixes with mastiff/guardian breeds for size).

I have owned many APBTs and been around thousands and have never been bit. My dogs have stable temperaments and so do their ancestors. I am not lucky that I have dogs of great temperaments, my dogs are not some special phenomenon within the breed. They are just true representations of the breed. I guess some would be amazed at how much "luck" I've had with them. They are just a product of proper breeding/raising and are nothing "special" IMO.

My ex fighting dog has a golden temperament, he will be 7yrs this year and is all around stable. He loves kids, he loves people period, he wags his entire body and just wants love and attention. He will let pups eat from his bowl or sleep with him. He doesn't mind submissive males even. Dogs seem to sense a dominant dog, he knew right off the bat our dominant male and neither like each other. They each like other dogs though. Pit Bulls thrive off human attention and were bred to bond closely to their family.

I understand the risk of a dog with unknown history. It can really be hard to adopt a dog, not just a Pit Bull. A shelter temperament test only shows so much. I've known a few people who adopted a temperament tested shelter dog and got an unstable dog. These dogs were not Pit Bulls but just the same could happen with a Pit Bull. I really don't want them to be PTS just for being Pit Bulls, but I do understand how risky it is. I really wish byb (of all breeds) would just stop breeding and producing dogs with crap temperaments. Kids are dying because of stupid breeders, dog owners and careless parents. It is so senseless.

[Spicy_VV]

Just to add I obviously don't approve of fighting dogs, but I do know that it isn't the major downfall of the APBT temperament wise. Using fighting as a scapegoat won't solve the problem. It'd be nice if they were no longer used for this, but if no one ever fought another APBT the attacks wouldn't really cease. APBTs with bad temps. would still be produced and still be killing or attacking people. So while I'd like to see dog fighting gone it won't help the situation of attacks by them.

[staffilover]

You have no facts to support this theory because the breed shows the opposite. Back when fighting was legal and before the felony laws/1976 Pit Bull attacks were not common. They were known for being great dogs in general. Around the 80s when they started to get popular with bybs and those looking for the macho dog is when bad temperaments came into play. Prior most most APBTs came from fighting stock, even pets or non fighting dog. One example is Petey of the Lil Rascals. He was smart, trainable and stable to be an actor and work around kids IMO. He was bred from fighting stock, his sire is one of the most well known dogs in APBT history.

:applaud::applaud::applaud:
also, rotties are classed as being more likely to attack yet they are not "fighting dogs"

[Spicy_VV]

:applaud::applaud::applaud:
also, rotties are classed as being more likely to attack yet they are not "fighting dogs"

That is a good point. I was kind of thinking about that. People say Pit Bulls are mean because they are fighting dogs but then that wouldn't explain why all these other breeds attack. Labs are not a breed selected as fighting dogs, Rotties normally are not either, many breeds have attacked some have even killed but were not fought nor bred for fighting. So that really can't be an explanation. :cheers:

[xnaomix55]

the situation here in the uk is worse. pitbulls are a banned dog and it is illegal to own one. ive owned a pure pit and a pit cross staff both were gentle loving dogs. its not the dogs its the owners that are to blame for the way the dog acts !!!!!

[bright eyes]

i watch the animal cop programmes on animal planet and on sum of them pitballs are banned in some of the states the programme is in and its been so sad to see pitballs on there that av done nothing wrong but be ill treated, but because they are banned in that perticular state they av to be put to sleep. i know they are classed as a fighting breed but so is my dog and hes a staff but that dont mean there allowed to. any pitball put into a loving home with good responsible owners will be a good loving family pet and in your country with all the different states they are banned in they should give these dogs a chance and not give up on them so easily as they do

[staffilover]

i watch the animal cop programmes on animal planet and on sum of them pitballs are banned in some of the states the programme is in and its been so sad to see pitballs on there that av done nothing wrong but be ill treated, but because they are banned in that perticular state they av to be put to sleep. i know they are classed as a fighting breed but so is my dog and hes a staff

in the US staffies are classed as "pitbulls" and are also banned under B.S.L.

[barbiespoodle]

I have no problem with pitbulls, have known quite a few and never worried about them.

But now to get back to the reason for this thread in the first place.

The reason pits are put down right off the bat is that there are too many of them and not enough caring adoptive owners. Cess pool scums are constantly cruising the pounds to pick up another fighting or bait dog, and the pounds figure it's kinder to put them down then to live that kind of life.

[applesmom]

It's not the dogs fault, the shelters fault or even the fault of those who are forced to make those ridiculous laws.

The fault lies with those who claim they love the breed but keep producing puppies. Every pet "breeder" seems to think their puppies are immune to the horrifying statistics that 50 percent of pit type dogs end up dying in shelters.

The breeders of fighting dogs don't care where their pups wind up as long as they can get one "good" fighting dog out of a litter.:(

[Spicy_VV]

I have no problem with pitbulls, have known quite a few and never worried about them.

But now to get back to the reason for this thread in the first place.

The reason pits are put down right off the bat is that there are too many of them and not enough caring adoptive owners. Cess pool scums are constantly cruising the pounds to pick up another fighting or bait dog, and the pounds figure it's kinder to put them down then to live that kind of life.

That might be true in some cases, but not always. The reason they put them down is because they are either be banned in some places or they are considered dangerous. Its not because their are too many and no homes. In some shelters they are actually not over run with Pit Bulls because the area doesn't have that breed as a popular one but they still PTS all Pit Bulls that come in. They don't do it to protect the dog from bad people or because they're isn't a home, they do it to "protect" people from these "dangerous" dogs because there are "more adoptable" dogs that "deserve" homes.

The breeders of fighting dogs don't care where their pups wind up as long as they can get one "good" fighting dog out of a litter.:(

Could you elaborate more on that?

[applesmom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by applesmom http://dogforum.org/images/sol/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://dogforum.org/showthread.php?p=198765#post198765)
The breeders of fighting dogs don't care where their pups wind up as long as they can get one "good" fighting dog out of a litter.:(

Could you elaborate more on that?

I'll be happy to!


The secondary fighting market has contributed to over breeding of pit bulls, Clifton said. The market creates a place where people can sell dogs as disposable commodities -- like pigs or chickens -- at much lower prices than would be invested in a pet, he said. These disposable dogs are designed to fight until they can fight no more.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/23/dog.fighting/index.html


Dog fighters. Dog fighting is alive and well and is dependent upon secrecy and a ready supply of free or cheap pets. Perhaps you think your sweet pet pit bull would never be a fighter. However, he is still genetically inclined toward dog-dog aggression, a genetic trait that is manipulated and capitalized in "matches" for human enjoyment and entertainment (click here (http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html) for breed information). Ask any animal control officer if they have picked up a pit bull injured or killed by dog fighting. While it's unknown whether those injuries were incurred in a staged match or a squabble over limited street resources one thing is certain, animal cruelty exists because there are simply too many animals. Animal cruelty is easy when another free dog is just around the bend and animal care agencies are so overwhelmed and under-supported that catching and killing takes precedence and there is no time or resources to prosecute animal abuse.
http://www.pbrc.net/freepit.html

Warning! On this site are horribly graphic photos along with tales of dogs that couldn't make it in the fighting ring being dumped as pets to anyone who just happened to be handy. http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting2.htm

[Spicy_VV]

Quote:
Originally Posted by applesmom http://dogforum.org/images/sol/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://dogforum.org/showthread.php?p=198765#post198765)
The breeders of fighting dogs don't care where their pups wind up as long as they can get one "good" fighting dog out of a litter.:(

Could you elaborate more on that?

I'll be happy to!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/23/dog.fighting/index.html

http://www.pbrc.net/freepit.html

Warning! On this site are horribly graphic photos along with tales of dogs that couldn't make it in the fighting ring being dumped as pets to anyone who just happened to be handy. http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting2.htm

Ok I read that. Thanks. So it seems it was a generalization. Thats why I asked for further elaboration. The original quote
"The breeders of fighting dogs don't care where their pups wind up as long as they can get one "good" fighting dog out of a litter."

Seemed to state that all breeders of fighting dogs don't care where the pups end up instead of saying some, most, ect. It is a generalization and I'm wondering how you came to that conclusion was all.

Some don't care of course, like any other breeder. They just breed and where the pups go is where the pups go, but if its not to another fighter then that would seem better to me. Well hopefully because some non fighter owners are irresponsible/cruel/neglectful in other ways but you see what I mean some get good homes as loved pets and don't have to fight like their parents did.
Some care very much, that is why they keep entire litters and some who don't do that still don't sell to the general public. So there pups are not ending up in shelters or on the streets. They are not being bred by other people to add to the overpopulation issues. They certainly care if they get more then one good fighting dog from the litter and do their best to make sure all wins from their offspring are reported. Which shows how good the dogs produce as far as fighting go. That is why I asked since that seemed like a blanket statement.

The 1st snippet is true of those breeding fighting dogs but also other breeders too. You can find Pits pups for free or even $100 with papers. Some might be from people fighting them others are just pet owners. I find this type of thing in many popular breeds like Labs. I've seen AKC reg. Labs in my newspaper for free. Some pups from fighting parents are cheap $100, others are expensive $1000+.

The 2nd snippet didn't have anything to do with fighters breeding. It is more or less talking about selling cheap Pits or giving them away for free. It doesn't have to do with dog fighters not caring where their pups go, but pet owners not caring where their pets go which could end up in the hands of a fighter. Those pet owners don't screen homes. The dog becomes a fighting dog, bait dog or suffers other neglect/abuse from their new owner. They should think twice when the put up a free to good home ad and care more about finding the dog a new forever home rather then just giving the dog to whom ever. That is a good warning and wake up call for owners.

I think one problem overall with dogs is they are seen as disposable and not a life time commitment. The pup wasn't trained, needs exercise, barks too much, ect the owner doesn't want to deal with it so they dump the dog off or give it away to a "good home".

[applesmom]

Ok I read that. Thanks. So it seems it was a generalization. Thats why I asked for further elaboration. The original quote
"The breeders of fighting dogs don't care where their pups wind up as long as they can get one "good" fighting dog out of a litter."

Seemed to state that all breeders of fighting dogs don't care where the pups end up instead of saying some, most, ect. It is a generalization and I'm wondering how you came to that conclusion was all.

Some don't care of course, like any other breeder. They just breed and where the pups go is where the pups go, but if its not to another fighter then that would seem better to me. Well hopefully because some non fighter owners are irresponsible/cruel/neglectful in other ways but you see what I mean some get good homes as loved pets and don't have to fight like their parents did.
Some care very much, that is why they keep entire litters and some who don't do that still don't sell to the general public. So there pups are not ending up in shelters or on the streets. They are not being bred by other people to add to the overpopulation issues. They certainly care if they get more then one good fighting dog from the litter and do their best to make sure all wins from their offspring are reported. Which shows how good the dogs produce as far as fighting go. That is why I asked since that seemed like a blanket statement.

The 1st snippet is true of those breeding fighting dogs but also other breeders too. You can find Pits pups for free or even $100 with papers. Some might be from people fighting them others are just pet owners. I find this type of thing in many popular breeds like Labs. I've seen AKC reg. Labs in my newspaper for free. Some pups from fighting parents are cheap $100, others are expensive $1000+.

The 2nd snippet didn't have anything to do with fighters breeding. It is more or less talking about selling cheap Pits or giving them away for free. It doesn't have to do with dog fighters not caring where their pups go, but pet owners not caring where their pets go which could end up in the hands of a fighter. Those pet owners don't screen homes. The dog becomes a fighting dog, bait dog or suffers other neglect/abuse from their new owner. They should think twice when the put up a free to good home ad and care more about finding the dog a new forever home rather then just giving the dog to whom ever. That is a good warning and wake up call for owners.

I think one problem overall with dogs is they are seen as disposable and not a life time commitment. The pup wasn't trained, needs exercise, barks too much, ect the owner doesn't want to deal with it so they dump the dog off or give it away to a "good home".

Yes you're right it was a generalization! I'm usually very careful to avoid generalizations but I slipped up on that one.;)

IMO it's extremely difficult to even try to think that anyone that breeds dogs for fighting purposes cares anything about the dogs and their welfare.

I think it's safe to say that most humans wouldn't torture their animals for either entertainment or money, and wouldn't even try to understand anyone that does!

But back to the topic. IMO As long as there are more dogs than homes and the throw away mentality continues, so will the deaths and the bans.

[Spicy_VV]

Yes you're right it was a generalization! I'm usually very careful to avoid generalizations but I slipped up on that one.;)

IMO it's extremely difficult to even try to think that anyone that breeds dogs for fighting purposes cares anything about the dogs and their welfare.

I think it's safe to say that most humans wouldn't torture their animals for either entertainment or money, and wouldn't even try to understand anyone that does!

But back to the topic. IMO As long as there are more dogs than homes and the throw away mentality continues, so will the deaths and the bans.

I know what you mean, I wasn't trying to say they care about welfare in the end. They just care to not let the dogs get out into public hands and want the dogs are taken care otherwise (like properly fed, vaccinated, sheltered, ect) but they will still be fought and get injured. Even if its not for entertainment or money the dogs get hurt no matter the reason.

Ditto on your last statement. That is what I was trying to say about people just throwing away pets but breeding more. :( I so wish I had money to open a Pit sanctuary.

[applesmom]

If every shelter was a no kill shelter and there were 100 sanctuaries in every state and each one could take 1000 dogs, it's possible that the problem would just get worse instead of better.

Irresponsible breeders would have more places to dump their leftovers and Irresponsible pet owners would justify that they were doing their dogs a favor by giving them up to go to doggie camp. :rolleyes:

IMO The answer lies in education and personal responsibility, not more shelters. Shelters were never meant to be dump off sites for throw away dogs. It's my understanding that they were originally intended to hold lost or stray dogs and take in those whose owners had legitimate reasons for giving them up.

[luv_my_brownie]

OMG! That is dumbest rule ever! Seriously! So, what if a dog has been in a dogfight, that doesn't mean they can't be adopted and must be killed! It's absolutely ridiculous! Pit bulls are cute dogs and I'd love to adopt one even though if he's been in a fight since they need someone to love and care for them! Right? Right!

[Spicy_VV]

If every shelter was a no kill shelter and there were 100 sanctuaries in every state and each one could take 1000 dogs, it's possible that the problem would just get worse instead of better.

Irresponsible breeders would have more places to dump their leftovers and Irresponsible pet owners would justify that they were doing their dogs a favor by giving them up to go to doggie camp. :rolleyes:

IMO The answer lies in education and personal responsibility, not more shelters. Shelters were never meant to be dump off sites for throw away dogs. It's my understanding that they were originally intended to hold lost or stray dogs and take in those whose owners had legitimate reasons for giving them up.

I totally agree! I think the personal responsibility is a big part of it. Some people you try to help and educate are just too lazy. They want a robot dog that is perfect. They go through so many dogs when the dog ends up bad from their lack of training.

Some dogs are in shelters at the end of their time because people don't want to adopt a Pit and others will be killed because they are Pit Bulls or fighting dogs so I wish to have a place for them. I could never save them all nor would I try to. I think you are right if there was always a place where they could go people would just get worse about it. A lot of Pit Bulls need a lot of time though to make sure they get with the right owner because of the huge responsibility they are with BSL and laws. Whats done with them effects others right to own them. A lot of shelters adopt out dogs without normally doing a background or home check, basically to anyone. People could adopt them for fighting or just wouldn't take care of them/know about them. The most irresponsible owner can adopt a dog. Some could for breeding (some shelters still don't spay/neuter) which just adds to the problem. One person who wanted to adopt one from us didn't know ANYTHING about Pit Bulls. If I had a place for them only those qualified and truly responsible would be able to adopt one.

I know this can go to other breeds too, dogs period are a responsibility and if breed enthusiast were able to help their breeds only get adopted to responsible people that'd help some. Not the over all problem which is bad breeders selling to bad people, surplus of readily available dogs to anyone who has the $. It'd help the individual dogs not get adopted out to the wrong home though. I read a stat and now I don't remember it exactly but the majority of dogs adopted from a shelter end up back there.

[bright eyes]

well if staffs are classed as pitballs as well over there that shows you that no one as ever bovered to research these breeds of dogs at all and its totally unfair on these animals.
in the US staffies are classed as "pitbulls" and are also banned under B.S.L.

[staffilover]

there is no such breed as "pitbull" it is a term used to group 3 breeds.

american pitbull terrier (APBT)

staffordshire bull terrier (STAFFY)

american staffordshire terrier (AMSTAFF)

[applesmom]

there is no such breed as "pitbull" it is a term used to group 3 breeds.

american pitbull terrier (APBT)

staffordshire bull terrier (STAFFY)

american staffordshire terrier (AMSTAFF)Even Pit Bull Central (National rescue) doesn't distinguish between them for rescue purposes.

The PBRC website is a virtual shelter and resource for owners and caretakers of American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and pit bull mixes.

Pit bull is NOT a breed. It's a generic term often used to describe all dogs with similar traits and characteristics often known by the public as "pit bulls".