Help! I have two male Bostons that fight each other!

[Rocky Mountain Mama]

I have four rescue dogs- two male Bostons- Bentley is 10 years old and weighs only about 18 pounds, but thinks he's ten foot tall and bullet proof! Teddy out weighs Bentley by about 12 pounds and is only 5 years old. They take almost daily opportunity to fight each other and they are not just play fighting. I can not bear to see them rip each other so I try to separate them and on Christmas Day Ted chomped my wrist, but good. It's bruised, and it was close, but no bleeding. If the doorbell rings, they both run to the door and get so excited that they just attack each other (it's humiliating to be so out of control and have total strangers see it through the door) If we carry one dog over the electric fence (they wear collars, but yard also has 6 foot tall vinyl fence), the other dog will jump up and bit the other's butt! Then the dog you're holding will bite us! We live to watch 'the dog whisperer'. Oh yeah, they're both neutered. and Bentley in spite of being 5 years older and being out weighed by Ted usually wins, just because he is sooooooooooo mean. The girl dogs, just watch them like......... stupid guys!Any one who could offer any humane (at least more humane than what they do to each other) advice would be greatly appreciated! These dogs would probably both be Alpha dogs in other households, but I know nobody else would have these little demons. :eek: and I won't give them away because someone else would have them put to sleep because they bite us too.

[Monkey]

well... apperently there are moments where they DO get along.. and then all of a sudden something happens that sets them off. In my ears it sounds like insecurity more than alpha.. alpha dogs are very much less likely to fight then a dog that's insecure..

However this is a big problem. Id suggest you do crate and rotate, together with increased exercise, self esteem training (You make sure they always succeed when you train adn then get a lot of praise) this is obediance, tracking, search etc.., use calming signals around them, this so they learn to pick them up and use them towards eachother, and Id also suggest to attent to obediance classes for socialisation and maybe have a behaviourist coming HOME to look at them.. I can't see them so I can't say for sure..

However IF they are insecure an dyou use ANY Of cesars methods at them like pressing them down, telling them to stop etc you might increase the problem. So Id suggest a private behaviourist.. OR maybe replace one of the dogs..

Good luck.. Ive been in the same situation but I had a pit and a rottie mix and it aint fun at all... I almost got it to work, then there was one last fight where the pit almost died.. I decided to give up after that.. But they worked clean for 1,5 years so its not totally impossible.. but I think you would need help from someone that has a cert in the field...

ohh edit to add.. increased exersice help them wear out, they will be calmer around eachother and wont jump to conclusions as fast, less risk for fight, also if one is crated that will give them oppurtunity to study eachother more without risk for a fight and will help them relax and learn eachother better. Exerise and praise for being good and succeed will build self esteem and positive endorfines wich will help relax them too and feel more secure in the situation.

and if there is something else, a good behaviourist will be able to pinpoint the REAL problem and help you solve it..

[sheplovr]

I have had Bostons and they are truly great dogs. U might want to get a spray bottle, put half vinegar and half water in it and when they get into it, spray their face. Especially the agressior of the fight that starts all the time, if you do this a couple times, I truly believe he will quit. It is humane to do this and will not hurt them. It is sure better to stop them than let this go on and if I had them this is what I would do. And, I do not do anything to dogs that would harm them.

Bostons can be lil stinkers now and then, one is wanting to be Boss, so now you have to Step in the let them know enough is enough and your becoming the BOSS N LEADER and this is not going on anymore. Tell them so in a firmer tone, it is a NO NO to fight. They will end up enjuring each other and you as always said. It really should of been stopped immediately so they had to chance to try and establish who is the Leader!!

They will not like even plain water in the face, lil bit of vinegar will just get their attention enough to hear you break it up and say NO NO MORE!!! If left go they will only get worse and worse until one will hurt the other and you or somebody else. I do not let fights erupt here as one would be just a beginning and all things would be completely outta control with two male Shepherds and four Females. I keep them in tact to listen to every word I say. I often carry a cane when all are high to run n play this just keep me on my toes and they know I have something in my hand to tap the nose they hate that, i would never hurt them uless one got outta hand.

I hope this helps, let me know. I know bostons can be lil spit fires at times, but wonderful pets. They do get very jealous also, so give equal attention to both at the same time. They are highly smart, easy to train so this should stop this nonsense if you do what I am telling you. If you need further help, let me know.:) And, Welcome to the Dog Forum, enjoy it here as we do, sorry I got so involved forgot to do this?

[skunkstripe]

Hi RockyMountainMama,
I don't have anything to add to the good advice that Monkey and shep have given about your two Bostons, but I wanted to give you a warm welcome to the forum. http://geocities.com/mymixedbreeddog/holiday/snowman.gif

[Rocky Mountain Mama]

I actually forgot- we have tried a spray bottle (someone who has a rottweiller gave us that advice) and we do spray them, but they continue fighting (really focused), so should I put a little more vinegar in the ratio/ to water? I don't want to blind anybody, just make them listen. :thinking: I have a large crate, but I sure don't want to put them in together, and which ever one is in is in jail (seems like), while all the others run free. After a while I can't stand the whining, crying and just let him out. Am I being too soft????????

[sheplovr]

No honey vinegar is a great produce, cops spray with mace, talk about going blind from burn, have had it in my eyes from dogs fights here long ago. It will get their attention I would never tell you something I have not tried or would harm a dog. Vinegar is used for dogs to take as a daily tonic and use half n half water to spray their coats, they shine like glass, a great product for birds, horses, dogs n cats. No harm in fact I am talking APPLE CIDER VINEGAR, but you can use regular dead brown we cook with, hit the face good to stop this, it will trust me..:)

[danny123]

Sheplovr are you saying you give your dogs Apple Cider Vinegar in their food or to drink??? And if you spray their coat with it won't they smell like a french fry...lol?

[sheplovr]

Absolutely NOT, ACV is great for all animals, spray on coats, I kinda rub it in as I do not give it as a tonic as they get supplements from springtimeinc.com
No, it smells for a minute then soaks into the coat and skin, makes it shine like a new shoe. honest. It is a great product for humans like me with Arthritis, took a drink when we first got it few years back in a glass in garage, almost choked to death, did not know u use orange juice or even water to delute. Just google it sometime, ACV is good to ward off fleas with one tbsp in food. Dogs love it.ACV is the natural king of skin remedies. It is wonderful for itching and scratching pets as well as a superb skin and hair conditioner. Good old apple cider vinegar either straight or diluted 50/50 with water can be applied directly to the affected area and allowed to dry. It will eliminate dandruff, rejuvenate hair, skin and help sweeten and balance the pH levels in the body. When giving your pet a bath, shampoo, rinse, then apply ACV either straight or diluted, followed by rinsing with water. Notice, any residue shampoo will be washed out and you will feel and see an increased softness and sheen to the coat. It can be followed with a conditioner of your choice. Taken internally will help the body against arthritis, itching, obesity, bad odor, dry skin, joint problems, lack luster hair and weak immune system. Average dosage for a dog or person is 1/2 oz morning and 1/2 oz. evening. A cat is half that dose. Can be diluted fifty fifty with water, dripped on food. Finicky pets try tiny doses then work up to suggested amount.
http://www.preciouspets.org/newsletters/articles/apple-cider-vinegar.htm

[melissa2007]

sorry to a bit off topic but are Bostons known for fighting other dogs? are they also known for acting like a big dog in a little dogs body?
Just interested in the breed

[Rocky Mountain Mama]

Well, I had looked it up before, but I couldn't remember it exactly so here it is, I copied it from a Boston terror, I mean, terrier site:

Bred down in size from pit-fighting dogs of the bull and terrier types, the Boston Terrier originally weighed up to 44 pounds (20 kg.) (Olde Boston Bulldogge (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/oldebostonbulldogge.htm)). It is difficult to believe that these dapper little dogs were once tough pit-fighters. In fact, their weight classifications were once divided as lightweight, middle and heavyweight. The Boston Terrier is one of the few breeds that was "Made in the USA." Boston to be exact

Really, we love these two dogs, They are rescues so I guess we tend to give them just a little leeway because I know the history on one of them. He was placed in a dog cage with a pug and left to stand in their own feces, urine and some food was put through the door every day (but not much food). I want them to have a great life now to 'make up for it', but I don't want them to be disrespectful by biting me or each other.
I have gotten the vinegar spray bottles out again. Since they are just as likely to break into fight in any room, I have multiple bottles, I don't want to spend time running around looking for the bottle.

[agilityk9trainer]

Actually, I'm against the vinegar thing. I have heard the vinegar with water trick for years, and when my hard of hearing boy started needing a stronger punisher, I asked my vet about it. Since Jericho would have to be put to sleep if he lost his vision, I wanted to be doubly sure vinegar couldn't cause eye damage. Turns out it can. The vet strongly urged me not to put vinegar in the water to protect his eyes. I went with just water. With the Bostons' bulging eyes, I'd avoid vinegar like the plague. Better safe than sorry.

I suggest you get a professional behaviroist to come and do an in-home visit. This will get to the root of the problem, which probably has to do with your leadership skills with the dogs. A behaviorist will give you tools and suggestions to help get your household in control. Without us being able to see the animals in action, we are really flying blind. Any suggestion we give may be completely wrong for your situation. The only way to accurately diagnoise such aggressions is to see them in person. So, find a behaviorist (or a good trainer) and get an appointment and get control back in your home. :)

[skunkstripe]

It can be tough dealing with rescues, especially ones that have been abused. You want to be extra kind to them to make up for how other humans treated them - and you don't know if they'll freak out if you correct them in any way. I had the same thing with one of our dogs - she was so timid and fearful it was hard to be "tough" on her. Still, you can't put up with them not respecting you. You can give them structure in their lives without being cruel. If you havne't looked into "NILIF" (nothing in life is free) you might want to give it a try. It doesn't require any tools, doesn't cost anything, doesn't require physical force, and it's easy to put into practice. Basically you create a situation where the dogs have to earn everything from you, from food to playtime. At feeding time, they have to sit and stay sitting before you place the bowls down. If they want to play with you, make them sit first. This is not a substitute for getting a behaviorist to come into your home like agilityk9trainer suggests, but it can go a long way in getting them to pay attention to you.
More info here if you are interested.
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm
Good luck!