More dog lovers are becoming dog trainers

[skunkstripe]

Apparently along with more and more owners treating their dogs like humans in the US, more and more people are also becoming dog trainers, even quitting high-paying jobs! :eek:
After years of planning, Noelle Fischer of Huntington, on Long Island, left her $80,000-a-year job as a bankruptcy lawyer to cajole dogs to behave. When she announced a year ago that she was leaving, said Ms. Fischer, 35, “everyone thought it was a joke.”

Few entering the profession realize that the most onerous part is no different than most jobs: dealing with other people.

1 2 “The classic thing that happens? Someone goes into dog training because they really love dogs and don’t really get on with people, but in reality, the job is 90 percent people training,” said Dr. Ian Dunbar, a veterinarian and the founder of the Association of Pet Dog Trainers, a networking group of 6,000 trainers.
full New York Times article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/27/fashion/27DOGS.html

[sheplovr]

Geesss one would have to be half crazy to leave a job like that to get into dog training.

Personally, I have NO faith in trainers in the U.S. or Canada. They do not have successful references and wins that appeal to me. If I were going to pay to title my dogs I would only be comfortable with Germans, they are hard workers, somewhat tough, but dogs are trained and titled and obey readily. I know for a fact.

This is my friend and mentor Gerti's site, she is so busy when hubby talked to her with training dogs, she has no time for herself. This is there life, and obedience in shutzhund is very very complicated. I would not hestitate to send a dog to her, I not only know her but all breeders here have trainers in Germany or Netherlands to do their dogs for titles and then they pay to have them come here to compete and clean house so to speak.

:http://www.schlossgaesschen.de (http://www.schlossgaesschen.de/)

[skunkstripe]

I didn't get the impression that these new trainers were going to train dogs to win titles. More like they were going to help the average dog owner stop the dog from peeing and pooing indoors or jumping on people, things like that.

[sheplovr]

True but how on earth could they make enough money quitting an $80,ooo a year job? There are wealthy people owning dogs but just think about how much hard work and how many dogs customers they would need a week or month to compare, I would never chance quitting a job paying that to surmize making that in the dog business, would you? I did not mean specifically titles in dogs but would that not be the way to make the big dollars to train to title and compete and charge all the fees they should and would? Such as entery fees, travel expense, etc.???

[danny123]

Hey, hey...watch it sheplovr...I've trained 5 dogs to utility, tracking, and one dog in shutzhund...and I also gave classes. Are you saying you would have no faith in me? My mentors were 3 Germans straight from Germany...lol, lol.
I did the shutzund just out of curiosity and to learn what it was all about. Fun, but wasn't exactly for me.
It's okay...I forgive you...lol
I think I understand what you mean though...too many people call themselves trainers when they can't even title their own dogs. By the way, yes, I was certified. One of my mentors became an obedience judge.
I agree that Germans take training much more seriously than we do, and they also police breeding, which no one here does.

[sheplovr]

Ohh I am happy for you Danny did not know you trained, but learning now some about new members. I was just talking in general to quit a good job to do this is very hard risky work to do.

I am glad now I know where to send my dogs or I mean whom to send one to now. Thanks for telling me you train dogs and are good. So many like u said are not and advertise alot, meaning if u need to advertise alot your not busy, right?? Ok honey sorry if I affended you as I never meant to hurt anybody. Peace brother????!!!!:)

[danny123]

Ha, don't worry sheplovr, you didn't offend me...I can relate to what you were saying. I was just joking around. Even if I did train dogs I would never have quit a job with that kind of salary to train dogs full time. I trained twice a week for a college that offered it as a night course, and I trained for our kennel club and our shepherd club. Afraid it's all in my past now, although I still compete in obedience with my service dog since they've started allowing wheelchairs.
I'm a good sport, I don't offend asily...lol.

[Sugardog]

Hey that's my profession of choice....Dog training :)

[danny123]

Go for it Sugar dog, one of the most interesting fun things you'll ever do.

[eb4i]

If we're going to bring it down to countries training dogs then I have a few things to say.

French Ring Sport

Belgian Malanois

And KNPV

No specific country is turning out better trainers than any other... Jeez.

[danny123]

eb4i---I don't think it's a matter of bringing it down to different countries. It's more like in Germany not every person can call themselves trainers on a whim. Rules are stricter. We also have rules but they aren't enforced unless someone complains. I know some people advertising themselves as trainers on the internet and different sites when in fact they've never been able to train their own dog for anything. Even in some communities a person can "hang out a shingle" without any certification whatsoever. So what you're getting are people who get the wrong training and half trained dogs who can't even pass a cgc. This is creating a disservice to the owners and their dogs. I think Germany and most European countries are more strict in that way, which in turn produces better trained dogs.

[Nicolelj]

True but how on earth could they make enough money quitting an $80,ooo a year job? There are wealthy people owning dogs but just think about how much hard work and how many dogs customers they would need a week or month to compare, I would never chance quitting a job paying that to surmize making that in the dog business, would you? I did not mean specifically titles in dogs but would that not be the way to make the big dollars to train to title and compete and charge all the fees they should and would? Such as entery fees, travel expense, etc.???


First not everyone cares to be rich. Second not everyones goal is to have a high paying job. Hubby and I both agree that we would both rather have an average paying income and have a job we adore and are very happy in then have a job we hate and make lots of money in. If you hate your job it causes a lot of stress and it can affect your home life so then who cares about how much money you make. Where as if you love your job then you have a lot less stress and can enjoy life a lot more and can enjoy all the little things life offers. So I can easily see why someone who loves dogs and who has the skills of dog training would leave a high paying and stressful job like the one this person had previously for the wonderful world of dogs. But that is just me. I am happy with the little things in life. I am not a material type person.
Nicole

[sheplovr]

Well money is certainly NOT everything but a good paying job with benefits with children is!!!

A dog trainer can always do this on the side for extra as these days nobody makes enough to be able to pay home mortgages of nice homes, utilities, medical expenses, vet care, food, etc. If people can pay all these things with a normal job and the wife not working it must be a good paying job. For, now it takes both to work to raise a family properly and educate the children also.

I had worked all my life from training horses on side to cashier at grocery stores to receptionist in docters office. That was when things were alot cheaper. I am not talking about making a ton of money for if a family brings in $80,000 a year, has 3 or 4 children that is a medium income.

It would be sweet to make a living and pay all the bills doing what they love to do to keep a family together, I just do not see it visable in this time and era.? Alot of people love dogs n training but making enough money not being greedy as insuated by my reply could make enough to pay all the bills. Or, maybe they prefer not to own a home, rent all their lives??

Just my theroy of thinking what I have been through working both of us with 3 kids to raise, and always a bunch of pets, it was much cheaper than today.

[Nicolelj]

Well money is certainly NOT everything but a good paying job with benefits with children is!!!

A dog trainer can always do this on the side for extra as these days nobody makes enough to be able to pay home mortgages of nice homes, utilities, medical expenses, vet care, food, etc. If people can pay all these things with a normal job and the wife not working it must be a good paying job. For, now it takes both to work to raise a family properly and educate the children also.

I had worked all my life from training horses on side to cashier at grocery stores to receptionist in docters office. That was when things were alot cheaper. I am not talking about making a ton of money for if a family brings in $80,000 a year, has 3 or 4 children that is a medium income.
.

I am sorry. I have 3 children and I am a stay at home mom and have been the whole time I have been married and we do not bring in $80, 000 a year. You do not need any where near $80, 000 a year to live on a year and you do not have to have a double income to raise a family even in todays day and age. Even with medical, school and so on. Oprah actually did a very interesting show on this very subject a couple of years back where she had an adviser on who explained that most people who thought needed to live on a double income would have actually saved more money if they had eliminated one of the jobs. They were expending more money in daycare costs, travel to the job, lunches and so on for the extra job that it cost more for the other spouces to work then it would for them to stay home. If they stayed home and cared for the children themselves they actually ended up saving money. THey were shocked to discover that. It is actually a myth that people in todays society has to have a double income to have a morgage, medical, school, family and so on to live. It is not true at all. I know that for a fact. And you do not need to bring in no $80,000 a year either. Just thought I would clear that up.
Nicole

[skunkstripe]

Hey guys, the reference to the $80,000 / year was to the fact that in the article which I cited, someone left a job that paid that much in order to start out as a dog trainer. There are urban parts of the US that are outrageously expensive to live by the way. The article on rookie dog trainers WAS after all in the New York Times. :)

[Ravinder]

hey guys, i can see where sheplver is coming from, i met this guy who bought his GSD from Germany, and i was amazed at how well the dog was trained, i swear if the guy said to do a handstand the dog would do it! (ok maybe bot that far but just to show the extent of it's training) but in all fairness, i would love to work with dogs full time and it's the case where have you got the money to live and support your family for the job you love so much, it's a hard choice but some people swear it's the best move they have ever made!

[danny123]

You're absolutely right sheplovr and Ravinder, the whole thing for me would be facing the realities of today's lifestyle. $80,000 around here is not that great a salary if you have a mortgage, kids to feed and dogs on top of that. People are paying upwards of $2,000 a month just for a mortgage and that's the cheap end. When you have 2 or more kids and you know they will need to go to university, a big chunk of that salary has to be put away in a special savings for later. Feeding a family of 4 costs at least $2,000/ month. Then you have the medical bills, dental bills, bills for braces, private insurances, gas for the car which right now is hitting the ceiling. Clothes for the kids don't come cheap either. I used to sew my kids' clothes...that doesn't work today, kids want to wear what their peers wear, they want name brands, which can be bought on sale thankfully or at second hand shops. Then comes the bills for cell phones, which most kids have out of necessity, computers, which are also a must for school today. Extra curricular activities also don't come cheap. Then you have music lessons, skating lessons, riding lessons, which most kids will ask for today..Changing times bring new technology with higher prices. Many parents are choosing private schools today in order to give their kids a better education, which can cost anywhere from $10,000- $20,000.
I really don't think a job as a dog trainer can meet all those expenses, a great second job for extras but not to raise a family on.

[sheplovr]

I have discussed this with a person since replying to it and $80,000 is not high pay at all these days. Take homes for instance, low priced ones are like $100,000 to 400,000, medium priced ones at $500,000 to $1,000.000, and high priced to millions up.

So having to pay for homes these days takes alot.!! I sacrificed a nice home when I had horses to live in a Mobile Home for many years. I did my own training, showing and breeding that run us in the hole. I worked in a lab for my horse vet, learned to draw blood, etc. I did many jobs when my children were graduated from high school and could manage here for me.

I did not want to affend anybody saying anything about money, but truly now days I do not envy anybody raising a family, having pets to feed etc. Prices of gas alone keeps me home cleaning, cooking n baking, and training my dogs.

I made a nice video and have to learn how the Hard Drive Camcorders unload. Have to see Skunk about that. But, back to money I am not a wealthy person no silver spoon was in my mouth when birthed. We worked hard to keep horses I loved then so much.

Now, I adore my dogs and puppies. I cannot wait to show u the puppy trying to keep up with hard dogs running over her making her tough.
I feel i manage well my money on S.S., but did inherit some money yet in the bank. I am thinking of taking a job part time at Wal Mart, was asked to anyhow. I seriously feel I should be working than sitting here.

I take on a real guilt trip when I have like nothing to do when cleaning is done and I am spending time doing T.V. or the internet. I just wanted to state my feelings on how people do manage in this era of tough times with families to raise. It costs me plenty to feed my Shepherds, giving supplements they have earned and working with them is hard on my ankel and arthritis, but I have no time to pity myself with that stuff.

I just wanted to clarify that I am NOT rich, have worked hard for what I have and yet work hard for my age. I feel great mentally and physically but do have some things to get fix medically then I feel I am ready to go. I am also thinking of maybe getting another female, sending her to Germany to Gerti and get some titles so I have one with working titles ahead of her name. Kinda stupid but that will solve alot of arguments I think having no titles on my dogs but they do therapy work and Obedience not for competition.

I think one to train must be very mentally sound and physically sound or the dog will not gain full benefits of any training. Just knowing this from horses I had to train myself as it costs so much and that has been twenty years ago. So, no offense or pun to anybody just my personal thoughts written down to vent I guess??:)

[danny123]

Omg...I can't believe you were in horses...I was too and I can sooo relate to what you are saying. I quit to raise my kids but when they hit high school I jumped right back in. And no, we were not rich and we still aren't. I also did work around the barn, trained other peoples' horses to help pay for my board and my expenses. I was in horses since IO was a little kid, think I could ride before I could walk, but it doesn't mean I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth either, I babysat for .25/hr when I was young, helped neighbors with house cleaning, anything that would bring me a few dollars.
I taught piano later on from my home and saved every which way I could so that we could send out kids to college and I managed to hang on to my horses. I always had a love for Shepherds and finally got my first one at 20 yrs old. From that point I learned, competed in obedience, got more dogs, titled them, got certified taught obedience , and still am very much into the learning--one cannot ever quit learning. Since the judges now allow wheelchairs in the ring I plan on competing for as long as I can. If I wasn't in this position I would still be teaching, but I'm happy to be able to at least own and enjoy them.
I agree that our dogs have to be physically and mentally sound to be able to be what they should.

[Nicolelj]

You're absolutely right sheplovr and Ravinder, the whole thing for me would be facing the realities of today's lifestyle. $80,000 around here is not that great a salary if you have a mortgage, kids to feed and dogs on top of that. People are paying upwards of $2,000 a month just for a mortgage and that's the cheap end. When you have 2 or more kids and you know they will need to go to university, a big chunk of that salary has to be put away in a special savings for later. Feeding a family of 4 costs at least $2,000/ month. Then you have the medical bills, dental bills, bills for braces, private insurances, gas for the car which right now is hitting the ceiling. Clothes for the kids don't come cheap either. I used to sew my kids' clothes...that doesn't work today, kids want to wear what their peers wear, they want name brands, which can be bought on sale thankfully or at second hand shops. Then comes the bills for cell phones, which most kids have out of necessity, computers, which are also a must for school today. Extra curricular activities also don't come cheap. Then you have music lessons, skating lessons, riding lessons, which most kids will ask for today..Changing times bring new technology with higher prices. Many parents are choosing private schools today in order to give their kids a better education, which can cost anywhere from $10,000- $20,000.
I really don't think a job as a dog trainer can meet all those expenses, a great second job for extras but not to raise a family on.

WOW your family sure lived the high life. And I don't mean that to sound insultive if that is what people enjoy and can afford all power to them. Hubby and I don't enjoy that kind of life. Never did. We do not envy rich people at all. We would much rather have a small peice of land, enough to have a house on, his welding shop, my rescue and where I can have my kennel and we can raise our kids in a healthy enviroment and that is all. All that other stuff we can do without. For example. We already have looked into it and a morgage would not cost, for what we are looking for $2000 a month. It would cost between $600 and $1000 a month. So basically the same as renting. Not bad at all really. As for food a month I am feeding a family of 5 and we are in no way spending $2000 a month. I just about choked when I read that. But I guess some do. I spend about $300 - $400 depending on the month and we eat really well, healthy, home cooked and have a lot of variety. I guess I have a very healthy family because Besides a small yearly fee to my medical insurance to cover the stuff you mentioned we pay very little a year for anything. AS for gas it comes down to conserving. Planning your trips for teh week, car pooling if you can and so on. Yes gas is expensive but there are ways to conserve and bring down money costs so living expensives are not close to what people think they are. As for sewing kids clothes why not? I still do? I don't buy name brands. Never have and never will. Waste of money in my mind. And I raise my kids to believe the same thing. You can get the same quality of product for a fraction of the price at a department store and it looks just as good. My kids don't care about wearing name brands and my daughter is very popular in her class. Popularity is no longer always about clothes anymore. I will never ever buy my children a cell phone or an Ipod or a text machine or any of tose gadgets. Their grandma is a 4th grade teacher and their aunt and uncle are also teachers and they all detest the machines and I agree with them. I didn't have them at their age and neither did they growing up. We live in a small tight knit community where everyone knows everyone and there is no need of them to have any of those things. My children will also not have their own computer. We have one family computer. Which we as parents control. If you can't afford to pay for extra curricular activities(we could though) then there are programs that towns and cities offer that pay for them so that children of low income families can particapate. As for lessons They are great, yes, and my daughter is in them when we can afford them, skating and swimming and brownies. Skating for Dedrick. But if we could not afford them then I would not feel guilty either because it is an extra. I did not have it growing up and neither did a lot of kids and they are just fine. Private schools is an extra also.

See it is a give and take thing. It is what a person is will to give up for the sake of happiness. And if they have family, children too then it has to be a family decision. So say my husband had this job that he hated and was always stressed out at which in turn left him stressed out at home BUT he made 80, 000 a year. Sure we had a bigger home and we had all the things you listed. And we lived the way you listed. We were still happy. But were we all happy? He wasn"t. So we had a discussion to just try it his way for a year. Where his does his dream job at the lower wage for one year and we live the way I discribed. Yes it was harder. Yes we did without more. But were we still happy? Yes. Were we all Happy. The answer yes. The only difference. We have less Stuff.

All it comes down to is where on the scale are you willing to live. I am happy on the scale I am on. I don't need a brand new 2008 chevy truck every year. Or every toy(boat, 4 wheeler, snowmobiler) imaginable. Would be nice but my happiness doesn't depend on it. I can still save for my childs future even on a lower wage. Just takes better investing and a longer time. And I do beleive in them also working towards their future too. It is all in how you look at things.
Nicole

[danny123]

No Nicole, we didn't live the high life. As a matter of fact we were in a lower income bracket than a lot of other people. But getting a $600.mortgage was unheard of and still is. I don't know where you live that things are so cheap, but believe me, if this was possible out here we wouldn't have homeless people living on the street. A $600 apt. is also unheard of...unless in the slums with the drug dealers and such. And that would be for a small dirty, 1 bedroom and no utilities. Our kids are now grown, but we still spend an average of at least $1,200 on food. It would be cheaper for us to go out for fast food, but since it's unhealthy food we choose not to except on rare occasions. We do spend on a lot of frozen prepared foods as I am no longer able to handle making meals, but even a roast costs at least $20.00. Fresh salmon that hubby barbq's is $6.89/lb. on sale. So food is not cheap here either.
As for cell phones, these are not extras out here. With parents working and kids being bused in all directions to school a cell phone is a must. Extra curricular activities count as credits so that is not an option or an extra either. It does help children develop a sense of team playing and responsibility also. Most families have at least 2 or more computers, these are also a must. Many people have to bring work home and need a computer, the kids need computers for schoolwork so that isn't extras. We don't drive a gas saving small car because we need a large van to accomodate my power chair and my SD. Oh, the van is also equipped for me to drive with all hand controls...not cheap but necessary. The lift also takes up room. Saving gas is really not an option since I have appts twice a week at the hospital, which is 20 miles away. We also needed an elevator installed in the house so I could reach the lower level, cost--$40,000. My chair cost over $14,000. The ramp to go outside was the cheapest since my hubby built it. So if you think this is living the high life try again...nowhere near.
Private schools are not considered an option for some parents, many of us chose private schools to keep our children safe from drugs, bullying, and suicides. Peer pressure is very hard for some kids. Some parents home school their kids.
My kids all had part time jobs by the time they were 14, so they also learned to budget. Nothing was handed to us on a silver platter. Yes, we did have ski-doos, but we didn't spend on dining and dancing like some couples,except on special occasions. Ski-doos for family times was more important to us.
Obviously where a person lives has a lot to do with the cost of living...the cheapest house around here would be between $200,000-$300,000.
If we could buy a house with a $600. mortgage everyone would be going nuts here.

[skunkstripe]

There is now a thread on the topic of high paying/high stress jobs vs low paying/enjoyable jobs here:
http://www.dogforum.org/showthread.php?t=15890

[Nicolelj]

I guess then I am bless to live in Alberta and a small family town where we all look after our own. Rent here can be very cheap. In some cases a 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom, 2 family room, extra large backyard home is only $450 a month. And nope not a slum either. A well maintain home only a block and a half from the local school. Small town living can be a blessing in a lot of cases. I do not HAVE to have a computer for my childs education, they have ones at school she can use. Lots of the kids don't even have one in their homes. But we do have one that she can use when she is allowed. And since I live in the farming and ranching area food is esspecially cheap, esspeically at the farmers market. Plus my husband is a hunter too so a lot of fresh game every year too. We do get to eat out when we have a special occasion or as a treat but that is all and I despise zrozen dinners. No flavor. I am lucky about my town. Everything we need is within 5 minutes driving so we do very little driving. We use up only about 20 dollars in gas a week if that sometimes. It depends on location. I consider myself blessed that is for sure. I would not move for all the money in the world.
Nicole

[Nicolelj]

Opps sorry skunkstripe. I was posting while you posted. I apologize.
Nicole

[skunkstripe]

It's ok. I just realized that the bit about "would-you-give-up-a-high-paying-job-for-something-low-paying-but-you-love-it" was turning out to be a lot more interesting than the "look-at-all-the-novice-dog-trainers-that-have-sprung-up-out-of-nowhere" aspect. Which is fine, it just doesn't have much to do with dogs! :p