Is it cruel to have working dogs in the city?

[Isargle]

Hey everyone!
Just out of curiosity, does anyone believe that it is cruel to have working dogs in the city?

[Monkey]

nope, the contrary in fact... all the impressions they get, sound, visisoon, smell, is more challenging than the impressions from the country side whicfh will make a working dog more tired than if he lived on the country side. Also in the city people often lack abackyard so they HAVE to walk their dogs which is also better. In sweden they rather adopt out to people in apartment than house out of that reason.. guaranteed dogwalks, I mean, who wants that stuff indoors :)

[applesmom]

It would all depend on the owner and how much time and effort they're willing to put into providing the necessary amount of training and exercise.

What kind of working dog do you have in mind?

[April]

As long as you exercise their mind as well as their body they can be just as happy no matter where they live. Just because they live in the country it doesn't mean they will run around a property all day on their own because they have the land area to do so. I had a Border Collie for nearly 15 yrs, took her to obedience training 4 times a week & agility once a week. I now have a new BC pup & intend doing the same.

[Isargle]

I've been asking my mother if we could get a Rough Collie. She says its cruel to have working dogs in the city, so i setup this thread to see what other people think. I have no problem in walking the dog everyday. But like i said I just want to know what other people think.

[Spicy_VV]

My opinion is no. There are several police officers with K9 partners who live in cities. I really don't think they are being cruel to the dog.

[Melamaphine]

I have a Rough Collie and I currently live in a city, so yes it can be done and I certainly don't think i'm being cruel. My collie gets plenty of free running exercise and I take her out in the car to the countryside quite a lot. I grew up in the countryside with working type dogs, and I haven't noticed any difference in happiness with my current doggies.

Rough Collies are actually far easier to keep in an urban environment than their Border Collie cousins. Years of breeding for looks and showing have pretty much eradicated the herding instinct in a lot of the lines here in the UK. It is very rare to come across a working rough collie (although if you wanted to do agility etc they would happily take part).

My collie is actually quite lazy at times and is perfectly content to snooze on the sofa or lie in the sun in the garden.

[Jake2006]

I doesn't make that much difference just as long as they get regular exercise which tires them out! A happy dog is a tired dog! My daughter has a Great Dane and lives by a harbour - she's a good walk from the beach but she exercises her dog twice a day, an hour a time on the beach and he's happy. I think though that Great Danes are happy being couch potatoes?

[Monkey]

yeah danes are a bit of couch potatoes they require very little.. However they rarely mind to tag alone a lot either. Which is why I so often can recomend them as beginner dogs :)

[blunder paws]

Hiya i don't think its crule at all. I have 2 working breed dogs a sprocker and a springer and i live in a town. We spend alot of time on the park where dogs are aloud to run free, there are also woods and walk ways off this park that we go on. and they luv it. When freckel is ok (he is lame at the moment) we spend about two hours twice a day there, they enjoy all the different smells, chasing a ball, chasing squirels, and playing with other dogs. they run them selfs silly and all they wont to do when they get home is veg. So as long as you can give lots of exercise there's no problem with having a working breed in any enviroment.

[Draco]

LOL! I'd love for someone to try and tell Ashenpaw that he is being cruelly kept a stones throw from downtown. Seriously, it isn't cruel provided that the appropriate amount of exercise and stimulation for the individual dog is met, they do just fine. In addition to having a Border Collie, we also have a Brittany, and until recently I had a Sheltie. All our dogs are indoors with us, but get play sessions and regular walks with trips to the dog park when the weather is good. Do your homework right to begin with before getting the dog and figure out how you'll make it work... and if you can find something they go nuts for <Ash is a fetch-o-matic, we employ that to burn off some energy> key into it and use it! ;) Stay on top of things though... if you slack off on training/housebreaking you could end up with a broken house. But that's with any breed.

[Isargle]

Thanks heaps for all your opinions.

Another question I wanted to ask was-well perhaps I should explain first.
I have a large yard with tall fences, but a small part of the fence is only 1 meter high. I have no doubt in my mind that a Collie would have no problem jumping that small part of the fence if it wanted to escape.
My question is, do Rough Collies like to escape and roam the neighborhood?

[Melamaphine]

It totally depends on the personality of the individual dog. Males are always more likely to wander, especially if there is the likelihood of a girl in season nearby. I'd say you'd need to get a larger fence, as 1 metre would be a piece of cake for a rough collie, they're very agile and athletic and it's too late when they've got out. All dogs are prone to go wandering if they're bored though, and it's never a good idea to leave a dog unsupervised in any space where an escape is a possibility.

My collie is clingy and tends not to go anywhere without me, even the garden sometimes. Collies are very faithful dogs who like to be with their people so they are easier to train in that respect.

[golden&hovawart]

Then,none of us,would have dogs,lol!!.
I've lived in Paris with my Pyrenean Shepherd and she went from a complete outside dog to an inside dog and loved it!.She was high -energy but asd I was a student,i could walk her 2 to 3 hrs a day and she came every where with me but the cinema!!.She did wonderful!.Again,it,all,depends on training and the amount of time,you give them to exercise.
I,now,live in the surburbia with a golden(hunting dog) & a Hovawart(german,working dog) and they,both,do great!.
They do need a lot more training than a country dog but that's fine with me cos I like well trained dogs!.
A meter which is(a bit more than 3ft),is an easy jump for most dogs so I would change that!.
I had a 17in Pyrenean Shepherd who could easily jump 1m80(6 ft).

[CurlySue]

Hi, interesting questions.......I have a Patterdale Terrier which is a working dog, but a) I don't live in a city and b) she goes off to work with my hubby every day and can pretend she is "working" by seeing off any- rats, mice, rabbits and foxes around the 40 acre estate.

However, if we did live in the city and she couldn't have 5 days a week "working", then it would be up to us to exercise her for a minimum of 2 hrs per day - more wherever possible - and also to keep her mind occupied with searching games, agility etc. There's no reason she couldn't be happy that way, although she would undoubtedly be a handful!

As for jumping over a 1m fence - in my personal experience I can't imagine a rough collie ever having enough motivation to expend that much energy unless actively encouraged, but then I only know a couple of elderly blue merles! If you keep the dog well-exercised and mentally stimulated, it should have no reason to leave the garden without you.

Best of luck!

S x

[sheplovr]

I have only a 4 ft high fence these dogs could get over so easy but they do not know that. If they never learn, they ignore it.

Living in the city with any animal is not bad at all, long as you get it out some place for a run or do brisk early morning walks. Dogs are happy long as they are with you. People that say a working dog cannot be in the city must not live in the city.

I live near a town and we go to the city and take the dogs. It is good for them to hear all the noise, cars, horns, sirens, etc. It makes dog less out going to banging and people it will be raised right along with all the stuff that goes on in the city.

K-9 dogs live to work in a city protecting people. Training and socialization is key and exercise daily, you cannot throw a dog into a yard as that gets very boring.

[agilityk9trainer]

Rough collies in the US aren't really working dogs anymore. They've been bred as companions for so many years that they really don't have that high-level energy anymore. I used to own a collie and was involved in the local collie club. Most of the collies were so laid back as to be a bit boring (mine was moderate drive). I can't speak for your area of the world. I wouldn't hesitate to get a collie if I were ready to give it exercise and some training throughout it's life.

As for a fence, it will depend on the dog. Neutering a male dog will help.

[devon]

I think dogs are more happy going on walks then they would be in the backyard. Working dogs will be happy anywhere as long as they get their walks with you every day:) I would definitly get a taller fence though, even if you are out supervising the dog he might be able to jump the fence faster then you can get to him. Or if you can't get a taller fence, then maybe put him on a long lead but be really carefull, make sure he's never left alone on the lead because he might choke if wearing a slip collar, or just get tangled up.

[agilityk9trainer]

Actually, a true working dog would need more than just a walk. Border Collies, working shelties, and working Aussies for instance would go nuts with just a walk. A rough collie should be fine with long walks, but a true working dog has to have a job. My shelties from working stock would pull their hair out and your's if you only took them on long walks. They need their minds worked as well, and must have a job.

However, in this instance, I do agree a rough collie will do fine with long walks.

[devon]

Yes, I think most dogs do need to have their minds worked as well, not just working dogs, but all dogs. Granted a border collie and similar dogs need more mind stimulation than most, but all breeds do need mind stimulation too. Good point though. I was just saying that working dogs would be more happy with long walks (or jogs), even in a city, as opposed to just being in a backyard somewhere in the country. But of course, working their mind is equally important...

[agilityk9trainer]

Yes, I think most dogs do need to have their minds worked as well, not just working dogs, but all dogs. Granted a border collie and similar dogs need more mind stimulation than most, but all breeds do need mind stimulation too. Good point though. I was just saying that working dogs would be more happy with long walks (or jogs), even in a city, as opposed to just being in a backyard somewhere in the country. But of course, working their mind is equally important...

Agree. :)

[sharky]

Not at all cruel....

NOTE not a herding dog but I fixed the fence issue with my ridgeback Ben , got a 8*16 kennel that is 6ft high ... unfortunately he doesnt like it and prefers to be with me ...lol.. it fortunate he likes to be with me

[Sugardog]

Depends on you IMO.

I live in the city and some day plan to have a border collie, the ultimate high energy working dog. But I'm rather high energy myself and I'd have a blast taking a BC roller blading and training one to do every trick under the sun. That would be a perfect match. But if you live in the city, aren't as energetic and don't have the ability or desire to train extensively, then a border collie wouldn't be a good choice for you and you're asking for a disaster.

So it depends on what YOUR energy level is, YOUR personality and how much time you can dedicate to the dog.

Another example, my neighbors have english pointers from working lines and he actually goes out every weekend to every other weekend and hunts. So you can have a working dog in the city, but taking it out to work every weekend is always an option if you can afford the gas.

[Syren]

I have a GSD and we regulary attending sheep herding and i make sure she is stimulated, we also attend agility every friday night - big walks every other night and lots of attention - mental stimulation

[Aussiepaws]

As the owner of two Australian Shepherds who are living in the suburbs I can say that if you give your dog enough training, exercise and play time your Collie can be just as happy as my two Aussies in an urban setting.

Any dog that lives in the city will need basically the same requirements no matter what breed they might be. I would say a Collie would do fine if you can meet his or her needs on a dayly basis.

[Kenzie'sMom]

I've been fortunate to have had three Rough Collies so far!

My first Collie, Kyrie was raised on a 5 acre farm where he had the run of the place. When we moved to a rowhouse he adjusted to the tiny yard by trying to use the next door neighbors yard for his business...he even learned to stretch his backside around the end of the dividing fence...lol. Needless to say we mostly went out of the subdivision to some open spaces. The neighbor had a 2 lb dog...it wasn't hard to tell who's poop it was.

Robbie, my next Collie was raised in the city with a backyard that was, maybe, 25 x 50? Other than learning how to escape through the back gate when the latch was broken, he did fine. I'd trained him not to step off the curb at corners without a specific command, so obediant little darling he was, he'd go down the back lane around the corner and back up our street without ever stepping off the curb! When we moved to the country, I had to retrain him for corners cause he got confused over the lack of curbs on the county roads...:rolleyes:

MacKenzie was raised in a 34' RV while I was a full time RV'r travelling the countryside. While we were mostly in parks during the week, I did art/craft shows on weekends and he was used to being penned in small corners during the daytime. Some parks had open areas and trails where he could run loose, some I had to keep him leashed any time we were outside. Today, he enjoys his own fenced yard and walks on the country roads where we live and gets to do trail walking when we go hiking with him.

As to the fence jumping, Robbie's fenced yard had only a 4' fence and, like you, I was worried about him going over it. The side of the house had a long narrow walkway leading to the front gate. He'd tear down the sidewalk there and I thought for sure that he'd be over and gone...he never did...he'd skid to a stop at the end. Now the gate pinned shut with boulders on both sides to keep it closed...well, I caught him moving the 10 lb boulder with his nose to do his escape routine...had to hire a neighbor to fix the latch for me...:D

MacKenzie does just fine with a 4' fence although this winter when the snow off the roof built up at the house edge of the yard, he did 'walk' over the fence a couple of times until we got out the shovels and did some remedial work...lol.

A Rough Collie would do far better in the city than many breeds that are both tempermental and high energy.

Oh and those that mentioned the herding instinct being bred out of Rough Collies here in North America are spot on, Kenzie is afraid of cows and hides behind me when they moo at the fence...too funny!!