Central Asian Shepherd Dog

[SAOVRN]

Present breed: Central Asian Shepherd Dog.
Kennel "VORONEZSKIE STEPI

Our females:

ANNA-BITUG BARLIYSHUK
Joung Champion Russia, Champion Russia, Champion RKF, CACIB.
T-1, HD-frei

http://i044.radikal.ru/0805/d1/27a2e1c715a0.jpg
http://i032.radikal.ru/0805/8d/684654b2faec.jpg

ENISH IZ VORONEZHSKIH STEPEY

http://i035.radikal.ru/0805/ab/40b42ae82d2b.jpg

ZADIRA IZ VORONEZHSKIH STEPEY
Joung Champion Russia, Champion Russia.

http://i028.radikal.ru/0805/9c/534272c901e0.jpg


Our males:

Z-MEXIR ALDAR IZ VORONEZHSKIH STEPEY
Joung Champion Russia, Champion Russia.

http://i041.radikal.ru/0805/5b/42f506e8a548.jpg
http://i032.radikal.ru/0805/31/2094dfbb583f.jpg

HATAR IZ VORONEZHSKIH STEPEY
Joung Champion Russia

http://i034.radikal.ru/0805/da/a4cd9ef6b7e8.jpg
http://i004.radikal.ru/0805/38/3389f73bbb0b.jpg

[SAOVRN]

HAKIM IZ VORONEZHSKIH STEPEY
Joung Champion Russia

http://i014.radikal.ru/0805/78/b16453b42e60.jpg
http://i007.radikal.ru/0805/66/299505f04603.jpg
http://i030.radikal.ru/0805/fd/202e1c4b74c4.jpg
http://i044.radikal.ru/0805/29/b6de9e39770c.jpg
http://i027.radikal.ru/0805/1e/a01674617b55.jpg

[Melamaphine]

wow, what gorgeous dogs. They're lovely!

[Monkey]

ohh pURDY!!! SLOOOBERFEEST!! *lol*

I love big dogs!!

[Melamaphine]

me too, I can't wait until I have room for a big doggy!! I've narrowed it down to a Tibetan Mastiff, Newfoundland or another Pyrenean Mountain Dog, but these are really lovely too - confused now!!

[Spicy_VV]

The Central Asian Ovtcharka is a good looking breed and very closely related and similar to my Caucasian Ovtcharka. I do not feel they are a breed that just everyone can handle. This is not really directed at you Melamaphine as I have no idea to tell you if you are a capable owner or not, that would be rude. So please don't take it as such.

This is just a general warning to anyone who may see them and say those are pretty I want one. I don't feel neither the CO or COA is for most people, that amount of high defense drive and need of extensive socialization is a lot for some and troublesome for many. The main difference is the COA tendency for dog aggression and that they are roamers (and night barkers). I do not think either breed is better over the other, but my choice on CO was because they stay close to their territory (oh forgot even so they require a proper fence and possibly electric fencing), the beautiful/fluffy coat (not the most important in deciding) and the lack of dog aggression, some might have some DA in trying to be dominant within the pack rank but it is different and less intense, I deal with enough DA from Pits. They seem to only bark when something is up, that can be at night when their being watchful but its rarely ever it seems. There are slight differences between either and some might find positive/negative in each to their own lifestyle and needs. I don't feel that dogs bred for a high defense drive and aggressive reaction should be taken lightly. Because they have lethal ability and will use force against what they perceive as a threat. Of course both breeds are strong willed, independent dogs so that doesn't help either. Sadly some have been PTS because the aggression is just to much to handle and deal with. Making them seem like a danger or liability.

I'd like to touch on the other breeds if I may.
I would say Tibetan Mastiff are similar in temperament. They are another that can be a challenge but well worth it to any experienced dedicated owner. There is those who believe in close/similar origins for the CO and Tibetan because of the similar temperament and coat type. I've only met and few and liked most of them. Not all seem equal though.

Many of the Pyrenean Mountain Dogs of today have been bred to be a more mellow dog, that which is more suited for a family pet. Although they can still come with the drawbacks of an LGD of course. There are some still kept traditional in the US with more drive and what not. I guess it all depends on the breeder and the purpose one wants the dog for. I've seen a wide array with them.

Newfoundlands are very pleasant dogs. While they are alert to things that are amiss and can show bravery or protectiveness they don't have an active defense drive or dislike of strangers. They are a much more easy and manageable dog. They fit into todays world better and would be better for a wider range of owners. They are not as raw in temperament. They require socialization of course but not as extensive and are a more sociable dog by nature.

Ok thats my blabbing for today. I just wouldn't want to see anyone say those are pretty I want one then get themselves and dog into a world a trouble. You never know who lurks on forums or might be looking around for into.

[Jake2006]

Spicy thanks for that information, I've never seen one of those dogs. And, they have cropped tails!

I hope people take your advice because it would be unjust if people got them as 'street dogs' for gangs. Its too easy to see a dog, fall in love with it and procure one without doing homework

thanks again for info.

[Spicy_VV]

Thanks for reading it. Yeah the COA had docked tails, the CO has a curly puffy tail.

http://www.puppyfind.com/breed/central_asian_shepherd/l_4355h4jot1.jpg

http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/customergraphics/ovcharka_a.jpg

That would be terrible to see. Although they are pretty rare and don't look so tough, especially the COs with all the fluffy hair, it seems some have already fallen into the wrong hands. The type of people who wanted a bad, macho dog, which turned them into a terribly hard to handle, dangerous dog by encouraging their aggression and thinking it is cool.

I think that could be part of the problem for the regular owner too, many believe just raise a dog sweet and it will be kind to everyone, they are not used to a breed that needs to be trained not to defend or taught that not everything is a threat that needs to be attacked. I think people need to keep breed traits in mind when looking for a specific dog breed. After all isn't that why we like certain dog breeds or they fit well with us? Selective breeding.

[sheplovr]

Hello and Welcome to the Dog Forum.org.

Wonderful dogs, would be hard for me to get used to the docked tail, but love the boxey face, muscled body, nice dogs for sure. Thank you for sharing your dogs and pictures to us.:)

[Monkey]

Good info spicy.. I was thinking it looked like the ovtacharka I didnt know they were also called that in english I thought they were just related. A girl I knew in sweden had one and she told me about the endless hours of socializating she spent on it. but they are GEORGUS....

[Melamaphine]

The Central Asian Ovtcharka is a good looking breed and very closely related and similar to my Caucasian Ovtcharka. I do not feel they are a breed that just everyone can handle. This is not really directed at you Melamaphine as I have no idea to tell you if you are a capable owner or not, that would be rude. So please don't take it as such


Thanks Spicy for all the info! I'm always ready to learn more about them and I admit I know little about either breed so it is good to hear from someone who does.

A giant breed is a long way off for me as my house is way too small, but on the subject I have always wanted a Tibetan Mastiff ever since I first saw one but I realise the work that needs to be put in.

My family have had 3 Pyrenean Mountain Dogs, the first 2 were bought as pets but also to serve as guard/watch dogs for a hotel that my grandmother and father had. I know more about this breed than the others, as I grew up around them and my father is very knowledgeable on the breed. I know from him that they need serious training and socialisation, ours were very sweet and loving with the 'pack' but the bitch in particular mothered me and didn't like strangers approaching me. They never showed any DA in particular, we had 2 mini dachies at the same time and they let the dachies rule. But, on one occasion the male Pyr defended our dachie from a Rottweiler and you could see the strength in him them, the Rottie was utterly powerless against him.

I really admire the big, strong breeds, but right now I do have 2 'easy' breeds so I realise the change it would be. I love Newfoundlands too, lovely big lumps. :) I wouldn't want a dog that had DA, there are lots of dogs in my family and it would make life impossible for me if they couldn't mix, so maybe a CO is not right.

[skunkstripe]

Here's a little more on the Caucasian Ovcharka in case anyone is interested.
http://www.dogforum.org/showthread.php?t=9938

[Spicy_VV]

Thanks Spicy for all the info! I'm always ready to learn more about them and I admit I know little about either breed so it is good to hear from someone who does.

A giant breed is a long way off for me as my house is way too small, but on the subject I have always wanted a Tibetan Mastiff ever since I first saw one but I realise the work that needs to be put in.

My family have had 3 Pyrenean Mountain Dogs, the first 2 were bought as pets but also to serve as guard/watch dogs for a hotel that my grandmother and father had. I know more about this breed than the others, as I grew up around them and my father is very knowledgeable on the breed. I know from him that they need serious training and socialisation, ours were very sweet and loving with the 'pack' but the bitch in particular mothered me and didn't like strangers approaching me. They never showed any DA in particular, we had 2 mini dachies at the same time and they let the dachies rule. But, on one occasion the male Pyr defended our dachie from a Rottweiler and you could see the strength in him them, the Rottie was utterly powerless against him.

I really admire the big, strong breeds, but right now I do have 2 'easy' breeds so I realise the change it would be. I love Newfoundlands too, lovely big lumps. :) I wouldn't want a dog that had DA, there are lots of dogs in my family and it would make life impossible for me if they couldn't mix, so maybe a CO is not right.

Think of the drive of your others dogs and times that by 10. The CO is less DA then the CAO. You just get your pack rank stuff. Once they know their place most say they don't really have a problem. There are ones though that don't do so well together, when you get a couple that are both very dominant, that can cause fights to break out. The protection of the Doxie from the Rott is normal, I see that not as DA but defense drive kicking in since its their job to protect their flock.

[Melamaphine]

Think of the drive of your others dogs and times that by 10. The CO is less DA then the CAO. You just get your pack rank stuff. Once they know their place most say they don't really have a problem. There are ones though that don't do so well together, when you get a couple that are both very dominant, that can cause fights to break out. The protection of the Doxie from the Rott is normal, I see that not as DA but defense drive kicking in since its their job to protect their flock.

Thanks Spicy, that's a good insight to have. Our pyrs were great, I think the most problem that my dad had was when they rescued an older dominant bitch and introduced it to the resident collie bitch, the collie went for it and the pyr grabbed her head and bit her eye right out. Once the pack structure was sorted, the 2 bitches were fine but I see what you mean. After that, my dad went for puppies that he could train to be ok with the other dogs, the 2 pyrs we had when I was a child were lovely dogs, they were aloof with strangers but once you welcomed someone they were as soft as my little cocker is. They did have a high defence drive - the bitch more so than the dog who was soft as anything, I was young but I remember Elsa keeping me away from anyone not closely related, she even used to put me in her basket and then wrap around me.:)

[Spicy_VV]

Thanks Spicy, that's a good insight to have. Our pyrs were great, I think the most problem that my dad had was when they rescued an older dominant bitch and introduced it to the resident collie bitch, the collie went for it and the pyr grabbed her head and bit her eye right out. Once the pack structure was sorted, the 2 bitches were fine but I see what you mean. After that, my dad went for puppies that he could train to be ok with the other dogs, the 2 pyrs we had when I was a child were lovely dogs, they were aloof with strangers but once you welcomed someone they were as soft as my little cocker is. They did have a high defence drive - the bitch more so than the dog who was soft as anything, I was young but I remember Elsa keeping me away from anyone not closely related, she even used to put me in her basket and then wrap around me.:)

Got to love dogs. So sweet.

[foxfirefarms]

I have not read all the rules yet so I wont post links or pics or videos to prove that CAS are most working CAS are not "dog aggressive" they only wish drive the predator away and to stay with the flock be it human or hoofed.

Correction the CAo and CO are both flockguardian as classified BY FCI.
Thus all flock guardians will be aggressive to tresspassing dogs wolves coy dogs coyotes.

The CAO is more of a landrace and less of a purebred then the CO.
Within the landrace you have dogs bred from over 7 countries for different functions. Thus different types and functions such as :

Nomads protection dog. NOT dog aggressive must work in packs
Livestock dog : Dog Dominant must work in packs
Sentry dog: Least dog dominant must work LOOSE in yards as teams.

Figthing lines that were created in the last 20 years of so since the end of the cold war. And the westernization of Central Asia.
Lacking protection ability bred for fighting NOT guarding.

Show lines can be either of the above .

Due to BSL is simply not fair to repeat hearsay without basis of fact.
I live 12 mins from the Ontario border and seems what BSL has done to a breed once created for bull baiting and guarding now used for a bloodsport.

Roaming : The dogs are nomads , the dog FOLLOW their owners not take off and not come back. But if you allow them to extend their territory just like a CO they will expand it to include patrol of your next door neighbors.

Co are being used for dog figthing as well as the CAO in Russia.
However due to a much higher human aggression the CO is used less
Because they are not safe in the nasty crowds that gather for these blood sports.

A well bred working CAS/CAo or Co will need introductions to new dogs and will accept them as members of their pack and will DIE protecting them.

They are and always will be territory guardians which all need intros to humans and dogs and anything coming into their area.

Please dont judge a landrace of breeds thousands of dogs _based on one small area using them for profit vs hundreds.

I have bred in 13 years over 61 dogs and own 12 CAS working dogs and 1 fighting line. The difference is vast. My line lives with other intact dogs my buyers have never had one of their yorkies or mastiff or Corso ever be injured by a CAS. The experts from Russia that come here also agreed that finding non figthing stock from Russia today is very hard. But not impossible since they dont sell dogs for profit but for work and are not online.

I miss the days when people educated themselves with real life work in dogs vs what they read on the net.
The future of my breed is bleak because of missinformation.

needless to say I dont say anything I cant prove.
I have a collection of over 4,000 pics and video documentating my history with the breed and how I went from my 1st CAO from figthing lines , to 4 generations of working dogs.

[foxfirefarms]

Correct is the CAS or CO are not for most owners.
However the CAS is ranked the lowest out of active defense drive of the 3 known Troika of Russian accepted breeds. CAS are not a russian breed but were taken under communist rule.

The SRO has the quickest trigger with no warning, the CO give a little warning but has the word aggressive in the standard, the CAS postures give a chance for the threat be it human or dog or bear to leave, they have the words " must be amendable to handling" any undue aggression is a DQ be it dog or human.

Again if you take any dog of any breed and select it for aggression againest the standard and dont socialize it you have a time bomb. Be it a bulldog, lab or CAS.

[skunkstripe]

Hi foxfirearms
Thanks for your qualified input.
If the links, pictures, and videos are on sites that you do not maintain (such as photobucket) then there is nothing in the rules which would prevent you from posting them. If however they are on your own site, then Terms and Conditions do not allow them to be posted.
Edited to add a slight correction: you can hotlink to an image on your site, assuming that there is no watermark in the image which displays a URL.
I hope this helps.

[foxfirefarms]

Yes thank you.
I own a gallery that allowed me to post my pics before photobucket came around
Im kinda old u know :)
So they are hosted by me so no I understand

How about youtube? i ran out of space on my site so I use you tube for recent videos?

[skunkstripe]

Well we are not trying to make things difficult :) just prevent people from promoting their own websites and / or businesses, even if it is through the back door. :) youtube is fine as long as it does not look like a way to drive people to your website.

I hope that makes sense.

If at all possible I'd love to see your pictures and videos.

[foxfirefarms]

Well stuck between rock and hardplace.
But I take great pride in my work and have to put my (C) pics on my site.
And even thou i have pics of my dogs on other sites or in books.
These dont exhibit the behavior in this thread.
They are usually stacked photos of a breed rep.

My you tube account is linked back to my site which simply is the breed name.
So again gray area. However it would possiby considered acceptable since this thread was started as a promotion of a line .

Either way people pls google keywords pack central asian shepherds, working central asian shepherds. and you will find evidence that the CAS is a working landrace of breeds that are NOT 'dog aggressive by nature".

If you find any site that has NO reference material or a verifable source on who wrote the info - dont post it .

They are just flock guardians and the best place for that info is http://www.lgd.org
non profit info but not for the CAS but other breeds mentioned in this thread,

I own the domains, and run the club wesbite but all will link back at one time or another to my site. So I just wont post them.

I will send u private links later that will prove the point..
Got to get to a Vet appt .

[foxfirefarms]

For this thread I will start another one -one day

This is my hubby and our 9 year old dog that raised funds for the SPCA each year .
He walked 2 miles with many other dogs and even thou he has killed many a Coyote.
He was more behaved then the lunging other dogs on flexi leads.
He is NOT dog aggressive he is dominant and demands respect if they want to play on leash.
A well bred CAS from working lines can do it all.
He has the 1st CGC and TDI for the breed, plus he has a TT and a Protection certified.
Plus of course ofa and show stuff.

He is also in the Dog Bible as a rep of the Working kind NOT the fighting kind.

Coz was born in France on a working yak farm, his parents came from Siberia on a working mink farm and from Afghanistan as working dogs BEFORE dog figthing took hold.

http://www.niagaraspca.org/Cosmo.jpg