Difference between a Pit Bull and an Am. Staff?

[Melamaphine]

Ok, under the DDA in the UK any dog of 'pitbull type' can be seized.

I see a LOT of adverts selling American Staffordshire Terriers over here and I'm sure that it is often used as code for an illegal Pitbull. However, I wonder if the breed is substantially different so as not to fall under the DDA.

I've tried looking it up, but the main differences I've seemed to find are that one line is game bred and the other conformation bred (the Am Staff?).

I'd love to know how closely intertwined the breeds are, how do you tell the difference? Are Am Staffs more placid than pitbulls because of the show lines - much as with other breeds?

This is purely out of interest, there's a staffy in my family who I love and it's made me more interested in finding out more about the types.

[sheplovr]

Mel as I understand looking quickly about the two is the Pitt Bull derives from the Stafford dog. So, therefore the lines might be similar and Yet some are registered as the same breed American Pit Bulls by UKC. The AKC does not they are registered seperately as Staffords were not bred to fight as the Pit Bull was.
Description:

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/pitbull/pics/med_pitbullandboy.jpg (http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/dog/display_photo.jsp?pic=/pics/pitbullandboy.jpg)
Known for their intelligence and loyalty American Pit Bull Terriers make excellent, loving and protective companions despite the unfair press they receive. A common question regarding the APBT is, "How is this breed different from the American Staffordshire Terrier?". In the eyes of the United Kennel Club, they are the same breed, but many disagree. Some AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terriers are dual-registered as American Pit Bull Terriers with the UKC; however, this draws criticism from many who point out that the bloodlines have been separate for too long for these to be considered the same breed. The AKC, on the other hand, does not allow a UKC-registered American Pit Bull Terrier to be registered as an American Staffordshire Terrier. To be dual-registered, the dog must first be an AKC-registered American Staffordshire Terrier and then it can be registered with the UKC as an APBT -- but not vice versa... Choose from a responsible breeder and make sure the puppy is properly socialized and handled. Solid training will produce a tranquil, good, obedient, companion dog.

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html
http://www.sbtfun.com/Shop_Books_PetOwner_CLee.html
Maybe this will help as it does seem they are one of the same dog, hence, AKC is trying to not dual register them. Hard to understand as they sure need a firm handler-owner, be brought up properly and a tough looking dog looking much alike.
Hope this helps some sort it out for you and me?

[Melamaphine]

Thanks Pat, that is helpful

It really is hard to know if there is a real difference then, all the reading i've done has left me a little confused, many argue that the bloodlines are separate so they are different breeds, whereas others say they are the same breed.

The only difference I could see is that some are very stocky and bred for looks, whereas others are lankier and I assume bred to be more agile and resilient rather than brutishly strong looking.

I haven't ever met a pitbull (that I know of) so I honestly can't comment on temperament. The english staffy belongs to my boyfriends mother, and she has shown to have a wonderful temperament with people and most dogs.

It's so hard to find out here in the UK, as the only examples you would see are illegally bred and usually irresponsibly bred, so you can't get a picture in mind of what they should be like.

[skunkstripe]

If you are referring to the "American Pit Bull Terrier" (as oppsed to a "Pit Bull"), it's messy because of the history of the two breeds. There is a good description here.
http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqover.html

They share a common ancestry and there are arguments on both sides for saying they are the same or they are different. The UKC was founded for the purpose of registering APBTs in 1898 because the AKC did not want to register fighting dogs.
Throughout the 19th century, these dogs were known by a variety of names. "Pit Terriers", "Pit Bull Terriers", "Half and Half's", "Staffordshire Fighting Dogs", "Old Family Dogs"(the Irish name), "Yankee Terriers"(the Northern name), and "Rebel Terriers"(the Southern name) to name a few. In 1898, a man by the name of Chauncy Bennet formed the United Kennel Club (UKC) for the sole purpose of registering "Pit Bull Terriers" as the American Kennel Club wanted nothing to do with them. Originally, he added the word "American" to the name and dropped "Pit". This didn't please all of the people so later the word "Pit" was added back to the name in parentheses as a compromise. The parentheses were then removed from the name about 15 years ago. All other breeds that are registered with UKC were accepted into the UKC after the APBT.

What makes it messy is that if a dog is registered as an American Staffordshire Terrier with the AKC, the UKC will dual register it as an APBT. This is why some people say they are the same. Others say no, they are two different breeds because in the past 10 years the lines of the AmStaffs and APBTs have gone their spearate ways and that enough time to develop genetically distinct breeds.

Then again, if you mean "Pit Bull" then this are VERY messy:
Pit bull is NOT a breed. It's a generic term often used to describe all dogs with similar traits and characteristics often known by the public as "pit bulls".
http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html

The way I read that, it says that if someone thinks a dog looks like a "Pit Bull," it is one.

[sheplovr]

Mel, I have seen on my property a State Cop brought his 3 here. I have never been intimadated by a dog in my life till I came face to face with those 3. They just have a look in the eyes that gave me the creeps. Now, no fighting, just my own experience I asked him not to do this and he did.

He swore he slept with all 3 and then his wife got pregnant, a change in characters and personalitys made him one by one put to sleep. It is a pity but I would not own a Staffy either only because of my age now and being able to handle one. I used to handle as many as 5 stallion horses and had arms like a guy muscled up from riding and working, now it is flab, lol.:D

NO OFFENSE ANYBODY I ADORE DOGS, COULD NEVER HURT ONE AT ALL.

[Spicy_VV]

The difference is registration. I know you are in a different country, but in the USA the American Staffordshire Terrier is the name used by the AKC the other registries go by American Pit Bull Terrier.

You can dual register an AST as an APBT. You can't dual register an APBT with the AKC but that is the same with any breed. I can't take a UKC Lab and register them with the AKC. I guess if the AKC had not chose the name Staffordshire Terrier and later changed to American Staffordshire Terrier there would not be so much confusion. They were trying to somewhat distance themselves from the idea of dog fighting which is why they didn't want PIT in their name.

The AKC ASTs come from the same place as the APBT because they are the descendants of APBTs and genetically identical. Same ancestors same dogs. The AKC opened the stud books to dual register I believe 3 times. So APBTs were registered with AKC to make the foundation dogs via the open stud books and then closed like any other breed. Because they are a completely closed registry. You see the same APBT ancestors back in the pedigrees. There is one specific dog well known fighting dog GR CH Tudor's Black Jack 16xw that you see him in many AST pedigrees, he was the sire of Petey from the Our Gang comedies. Some Colby dogs were also dual registered.

Think of it like this. If AKC recognized the American Bulldog under the name of New America Bulldog (or whatever) it wouldn't change into a complete different breed because its never been crossed to another breed to create a new one. That which we call a rose by any other name would still smell just as sweet.

I guess you'd say they are fully intertwined. Placid, docile, or high energy, ect depends on bloodlines.

Was just looking at one of the links. bullbreeds.com had some inaccuracies.

[Melamaphine]

It's really interesting to hear about this, I honestly can't comment on pitbulls as the only ones I've seen have been on chains held by dodgy looking guys in hoodies. I did have a problem with something that looked like a pit near our house, the lads were baiting it and encouraging it to lunge at passers by....imagine if it got loose! most here are sold as 'Am Staffs' and I always understood this to be a pseudonym for Pitbull, which it seems it is and I was right.

[Bigboy]

Can you really have a American Staffordshire pit bull ? Iam from the Staffs area and a SBT (Staffordhire Bull Terrier) A.F.A.I.K comes originaly from the Staffs area, So if a Staffordhire Pit Bull the same as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier? American type seems to have a longer snout or is this the English bull terrier? Confused!!!

[Monkey]

english bullterrier is this..
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=30106&rendTypeId=4

about the others... Im not sure, I am fairly sure that in UK where your at, english staffordshire is that, american staffordshire is that, and american pitbull is illegal..

here in the US spicy told us that they have brought in pitbulls in the amstaffs genetic book therefor you can take an amstaff and register it as american pitbull but you can not take an american pitbull and say it's an amstaff (amstaff sprung from pitbull later if I do not remember wrong, spicy correct me if I am)

and they have only brought in more american pitbulls when the genepool has gone too small to save the american staffordshire cause they are SO close related..

[Spicy_VV]

Can you really have a American Staffordshire pit bull ? Iam from the Staffs area and a SBT (Staffordhire Bull Terrier) A.F.A.I.K comes originaly from the Staffs area, So if a Staffordhire Pit Bull the same as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier? American type seems to have a longer snout or is this the English bull terrier? Confused!!!

I'm not sure if you can have American Staffordshire Terrier there or not. I know that a lot of BSL have caught on that AST and APBT are pretty much the same but not in all areas. Then again in some areas it Pit Bull, Pit Bull Terrier, and any dog with the majority of characters of Pit Bull type dogs. So it would include all 3 American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier and American Pit Bull Terrier PLUS any other breed or mix that they think looks close enough to a "pit bull".

The American Staffordshire is not exact same as Staffordshire Bull Terrier because of so much different breeding, oceans separated them for years. The AmStaff is the same as American Pit Bull Terrier. The SBT does come from the same dogs and same breedings, the APBT/SBT is derived from the SBTs that were brought here from England, as well as other pit dogs from from other regions (such as Ireland and the like). So you could say SBT although they did not have a name at the time were basically the dogs brought over here. None of them were SBT, APBT or AST until later on. Some lines of our American dogs have SBT brought back into the genepool more recently. As well as English Bull Terrier in there which is a different breed. They are also from the Bull and Terrier crosses but bred for different physical look and became a show breed quicker with only a few exceptions to some fighting Bull Terriers. Before the AKC recognized AmStaff themselves some APBTs were AKC registered as Bull Terriers. So you can see these breeds are very much intertwined throughout history.

SBT, AST and APBT have variance in type within their own breed. They do look different though from one another.

[staffilover]

american staffordshire terriers are banned here under the DDA:mad:

[Melamaphine]

I thought that too, but you constantly see them advertised. I've also noticed the use of 'King staff' and 'Red-Noses'. It only reinforces the status symbol aspect of them, it makes me so mad.

[JessAllman]

"Pit Bull" is not a breed. It is a term used to describe three different breeds with similar characteristics:

-American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT)
-American Staffordshire Terrier (AMSTAFF)
-Staffordshire Bull Terrier (STAFFY)

Hope this helps you