German Shepherds

[Lilac]

For those more informed about the GSD what are the differences about the American and German lines? Other then then American ones look like their back legs/backs are in different time zones.

[paigeolivia.]

Well, as I gather from reading what Sheplovr posts about the American v German lines, The American Germans are bred for looks whereas the German Germans are bred for working ability, Temperament and lastly, looks. But you should probably PM Shep, she knows a lot more about it than I do! :)

Edit; There is quite a bit in a thread on here about why GSDs have slanting backs. If you can find that, theres quite a bit of info in there! :)

[paigeolivia.]

Link to that thread >> http://www.dogforum.org/showthread.php?t=16908

[Fede]

This is a complicate matter, really. I’ll try to give my opinion if you put up with my poor English and my little knowledge.
First of all, the sloping stance of a CORRECT German Shepherd should be useful to give them an easy trot. GSDs are great trotters, if you observe a well built dog you’ll notice a great agility and fluidity in their movement. This is a characteristic they strived for through selective breeding to give them great endurance. Their built is that of a long distance runner: they are a little longer than tall (the ideal is a 11/10 ratio between length of their body and height), they show a “diagonal movement” which is the best for a trotter, and their built and the ideal angulated legs are the characteristics that made them awesome trotters.

And here I quote the FCI Standard:
“The German Shepherd Dog is a trotter. His gait exhibits diagonal movement, i.e., the hind foot and the forefoot on opposite sides move simultaneously. The limbs, therefore, must be so similarly proportioned to one another, i.e. angulated, that the action of the rear as it carries through to the middle of the body and is matched by an equally far-reaching forehand causes no essential change in the topline. Every tendency toward overangulation of the rear quarters diminishes soundness and endurance. The correct proportions of height to length and corresponding length of the leg bones results in a ground-eating gait that is low to the ground and imparts an impression of effortless progression. With his head thrust forward and a slightly raised tail, a balanced and even trotter will have a topline that falls in moderate curves from the tip of the ears over the neck and level back through the tip of the tail.”

This means that the angulation of their hindquarters should correspond roughly to the forequarter angulation, and they shouldn’t be overangulated.
Then, the thrust is generated by the rear quarters, and the slight curve of their lower back is necessary to transmit the thrust to the anterior part of their body, so the line of their back is very effective to give continuity and fluidity to their movement, and this gives them a very long pace. They call it “the German Shepherd flying trot”.

These are examples of correct movement for a GSD
West German show line:
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8260/xeniatrotnt1.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3005/2494846148_0dd1120f57.jpg?v=0
http://www.vomhausmiller.com/images/Tim3043.jpg



To obtain this movement, their conformation should be like this:

http://www.canedapastoretedesco.info/Documenti/bsz%202002_auslesi%20maschi/va1-yasko-2002.jpg





Now, the problem with American German Shepherds is that their legs are overangulated and, on top of that, their back is as stiff as a stick, they can’t trot with ease. Their legs are also too short and, in some cases, their chest is too deep.
Here there are some examples:
http://www.dogsgermanshepherd.com/German_Shepherd.JPG
http://www.dogsgermanshepherd.com/CH%20Joe%20Miguel.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5297/germanshepherdfemalestalk3.jpg


PS: I hope no one feels offended, this is one of the few cases I prefer the European version to the American one... For example, I'm absolutely in love with American Rough Collies (I like them much more then the ones we have here) and American White Shepherds (if we don't open up to import some dogs again, our White Swiss Shepherd lines are going to be ruined...)
Plus, it's not like Eurpean German Shepherd lines here perfect, far from that... I saw some shameful example of bad breeding around during the last years, but I hope they are just a few cases... I have seen a lot of faulted GSDs here too, and I dont' like it a bit... I'm very sad :(

[kelsiebug]

I am glad you made this thread, because I would also like to know the difference.

Ohh, and I love the American looks. -Slanting back-

[Fede]

I'd like to show you an example of perfect movement for a German Shepherd.

This is Dingo vom Haus Gero:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/pictures/39.jpg



And this is a video of his trot, perfect "flying trot" ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIFpKL0qRQ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIFpKL0qRQ0)


This is how a german shepherd should move, his great ability to trot and the great endurance come from a long pace, thanks to the angulated legs and slightly sloping back.

More angulated legs cannot guarantee a trot like this...

[Fede]

I was chatting with a friend of mine on another forum, he says that if the back is too much slanted, it puts a lot of weight on the dogs posterior legs, compromising his endurance...
I think that's true, that's the reason why too much angulation and too much sloping of the rear are negative... I'd like to know what you think, there are a lot of users in this forum who knows a lot about GDS and I always like to know more (in GSD's forums I can never find direct and honest answers :()

[sheplovr]

This is pretty much self explanation for you, study the over all confirmation of each one. The reason I love West German lines is because they are combined of working dogs and showing lines to make them much prettier as work lines are not pretty. They are more unsound in nerves but make good dogs if taken training slowly, most rush over here to train and blow the minds. Show lines are gorgeous, not much difference but work lines are mostly sables, dark dogs, heavier bone a little and very high drive. Alot of check lines, East German.

http://www.dogforum.org/gallery/data/500/medium/GSDCOMP1.jpg (http://www.dogforum.org/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/6974/size/big/cat/500)
Also, notice the German dogs stand up on their toes, AM. ones are on almost entire back leg making a weak rear, croup drops like a cliff. Just study angulation of them to German bred Shepherds.