Black boxers or Not?

[zoeybeau1]

Found a site while mooching the net, what do you guys think, are they true boxer's as claimed or not?

[vinya12]

I like them. but then again I like all dogs :)

[BratBoxers]

I have been to that site many times! Ewww.....

They are nothing more than a puppymill. All their puppies I have ever seen have just be horrid and don't look like boxers. The black boxer is extinct has been for a long time, those are mutts registered CKC which registers anything including mixes.

[Monkey]

look at the noses... they are not set the least as a real boxer.. my guess would be that it is pitbull/staff in them.. it looks very much like that in my humble opinion..

[skunkstripe]

Since this is headed towards bashing a specific breeder, and one who is not present to defend himself/ herself, I've removed the link. Hopefully a general discussion on Black Boxers can continue.

[sheplovr]

I did not get to the site, but I can picture it. Just humans trying to ruin breeds with mixing junk. It is disgusting and ugly to imagine a black boxer, I picture nice ones white and fawn or brindles I love. Why do we keep trying to change things in dog breeds just for money as humans are like Monkeys very inquisative. spelling wrong but sure u get it.:(

[agilityk9trainer]

I did a Google search on Black Boxers to see some. I don't know if I was at the breeder mentioned or not. However, these dogs weren't boxers. They looked like pit-boxer crosses. This particular site also played music and had "sparkles" going besides the dogs pictures, something I find in common with many puppymill sites.

I would be very wary if I were looking for a black boxer. Sounds like they only exist in the minds of those who wish to make money on poor dogs.

[applesmom]

Is the site on the history of black boxers the one that's the subject of this discussion?

[skunkstripe]

Carol, it was not a link to a history of black boxers. The link was to a specific breeder.

[boxerpups]

There is no such thing as a Black Boxer, any breeder worth their salt, will know this.... anyone claiming to own /breed BB is not to be trusted..

Did not see the link, but have seen the kind of thing before... and they mostly resemble Xbreeds.... or will be a very dark reverse brindle

[Melamaphine]

Just googled it and I think I see the site.

Looks to me like some kind of mix, and the black is not a true black in the pic I'm looking at...there is a definite mahogany tinge to it. Can't speak for boxers, but in collies a tinge of mahogany to black is a fault.

[sheplovr]

I also looked up black boxers and got many sites sorry to say. The one site had a massive male, huge in front, small head, very short ears, looked very nastey in photos. Most Boxers always look happy, full of life.

I certainly do not like them, they look too different and just not the normal colors. The face was more smashed in and made it look unreal of a true Boxer, but many sites came up so maybe it is becoming the norm? They were big breeders with nice sites the ones I had come up to look at?

[zoeybeau1]

It wan't inteneded as breeder bashing, sorry Admin.
It was just I didnt think they looked like real purebred dogs, they looked pit mixes to me, and I wondered what people thought, I didnt intend it as they breeder basher it looked like, it is not my thing sorry if I upset anyone.

[zoeybeau1]

There is no black in the breed standard.;)

[skunkstripe]

It wan't inteneded as breeder bashing, sorry Admin.

No problem zoeybeau. These 'breeding against the standard' threads aren't usually intended that way but somehow that's where they often end up. ;) More often than not since people feel free to hurl insults at someone who isn't a member, the breeder ends up joining after all and that's when things get really ugly. No one like to have their dogs insulted, including those who are breeding against an accepted standard. :)

It looks like the discussion can continue without singling out any one breeder.

[dollyk]

I never saw the link , But I tend to call a very dark brindlke boxer a reverse brindle , I think on a whole some of the very dark brindle boxers are stunning ,

[Spicy_VV]

I like "black" (they're actually black brindle) Boxers just as well as any other Boxer. I do not care for white Boxers.

I did not get to the site, but I can picture it. Just humans trying to ruin breeds with mixing junk. It is disgusting and ugly to imagine a black boxer, I picture nice ones white and fawn or brindles I love. Why do we keep trying to change things in dog breeds just for money as humans are like Monkeys very inquisative. spelling wrong but sure u get it.:(

Yes why do they try to change them? Why did they decide to eliminate black from the bloodlines. I think it would have been very nice if they had been allowed.

We all have our own opinions of ugly vs nice so I know its objective. I find it interesting though that you like white but would think a black ugly considering both black and white were disallowed in 1925. People still breed white yes for money or because they like it even though it is against the standard. They do not care of deafness or skin issues that can be worse for a white Boxer. Sometimes whites can pop up even from some very good breeders as black is much easier to get rid of then white. Good breeders will cull them, but many people breed the white dogs. They sell them as rare or special for more money then fawn or brindle (the only 2 colors allowed by the standard).

[Sarah&Billy]

If you do see a Black Boxer advertised it would not be a pure-bred, it would be a mix breed dog. It is just not possible. You will often see what looks like a black boxer but is in fact a dark reverse brindle.

White boxers on the other hand will happen - breed a flashy fawn and there is that chance.

[agilityk9trainer]

Good breeders will cull them, but many people breed the white dogs. They sell them as rare or special for more money then fawn or brindle (the only 2 colors allowed by the standard).

I hope by "cull" you mean spay and neuter and not "kill." A good breeder should never kill a dog for color. The dog can still be placed in a nice pet home under a spay/neuter contract.

I own such a dog. He's a color headed white sheltie. Some breeders (and I won't even begin to use the term "good") still kill them just for being white. If it's not, it should be illegal and is unacceptable at any level. Jericho earned a 96 and a 99 in Rally ths weekend. I'm glad his breeder didn't "cull" him.

BTW, he is neutered.

[zoeybeau1]

Some breeder's still do kill white boxer's I however do not, why for just colour that white baby has every much of a reason to be here than any other colour, yes whites will have deafness, but is that a good enough reason to kill them?
Not no not in my book, some of the nicest Boxer's are indeed white, In all the years I have never had a blind blue eyed or any other colour eyed white boxer, I thought I had a year and half ago, but no he was just coming to terms with being deaf I suspect, we found him a lovely home with a ex-animal society worker, who had a white cat deaf also, I have even re-homed for a friend a deaf red dog, he came with his friend they had been together for years, and George was deaf, and his old owner never knew we had him 4 weeks and noticed straight away, and when i told his old owner he said it explained alot.

[boxerpups]

I like "black" (they're actually black brindle) Boxers just as well as any other Boxer. I do not care for white Boxers.



Yes why do they try to change them? Why did they decide to eliminate black from the bloodlines. I think it would have been very nice if they had been allowed.

We all have our own opinions of ugly vs nice so I know its objective. I find it interesting though that you like white but would think a black ugly considering both black and white were disallowed in 1925. People still breed white yes for money or because they like it even though it is against the standard. They do not care of deafness or skin issues that can be worse for a white Boxer. Sometimes whites can pop up even from some very good breeders as black is much easier to get rid of then white. Good breeders will cull them, but many people breed the white dogs. They sell them as rare or special for more money then fawn or brindle (the only 2 colors allowed by the standard).


The reason you will not see a Black Boxer pup in a true pure bred litter is simply because the Boxer does not carry the "black gene", as for them being ugly I agree with you, beauty is in the eye of the beholder,,, and as a Xbreed... it will not matter how it looks, it will be loved for what it is.

Those who like to promote the Black Boxer often use often use Frau Stockmann's writings to back their claims....but if you read it correctly you will see the "Black " Boxer, goes back to a Bulldog /Black Schnauzer mating..... hence Xbreeds.


The white Boxer is always going to happen. they are not rare, nor do they only pop up from time to time... any mating of flashy dogs will and and more than likely produce 25% whites in a litter.... even solid dogs can produce white pups,, they only have to have a miniscule of white on them to produce a white pup.

And as the "Flashy " is prefared for the show ring , we will continue to produce whites...

Whites do not adhere to breed standard.... they should NEVER be bred from..... they can not be shown at KC standard, but can be registered along with their siblings, it does not make them any less a Boxer, they do well at agility, obiedence , anything their coloured siblings can do.

A white can sometimes be born deaf...but mostly they are as healthy as their coloured siblings.... yes they can suffer skin problems, but no more than coloured Boxers, it will be down to environment or bad breeding... bad breeding will effect ALL Boxer regardless of colour.

I can only speak for the UK, but whites are no longer " culled" ( pts) here,(has not happened for many many yrs) culling white puppies in no longer considered "ethical" not to mention morally, NO good , ethical breeder (even the byb`s ) will cull their whites.... as they can sell them just as easy as any of their coloured siblings...... usually for half the price...so even the most money oriented breeder will not "dispose" of something that they can get money for.


The average price of a good well bred Boxer in the UK will be between....£700/ £800..... some top show kennels will charge upwards of £1000... for a good show prospect.... hence whites will go for around the £300/£400

Any one who pays more for a white , will seriously have been done.... where ever you live in the world.

Here you go a little reading

http://www.expertarticles.com/article/Pets-Animals/The-Truth-about-Black-Boxer-Dogs.html

[Chaz]

Just think that when white boxers were drowned years ago as they were not considered worthy, I have seen black brindle boxers and they look gorgeous and I love them so why can't people breed black boxers now?

[boxerpups]

Just think that when white boxers were drowned years ago as they were not considered worthy, I have seen black brindle boxers and they look gorgeous and I love them so why can't people breed black boxers now?

Simply because they never bred Black Boxers in the first place, or should I say "intentionally" there was only a handful of these dogs and they cam about by accident.

What you are seeing is a dark brindle..some call them reserve brindle.

To get a solid "Black" coat a dog will need to have a dominant black gene...and the Boxer does not carry such a gene...

The Black Boxer , or those that where considered Black have not bee seen in over 100yrs.... and every one of these Black dogs will have been descended from the xbreeeding of a Bulldog and Schnauzer.

The base colour of all Boxers is RED (fawn) and this will determine the colour of our breed... the black striping will then be classed as bridle...

There are those who claim a recessive black gene in Boxers, but it is also claimed that the recessive black gene is a killer for our breed. Although there is no evidence of such a gene ...so it is all to be taken with a pinch of salt.

If in over 100yrs we have not seen what people like to call the "Black "Boxer, so those who are now claiming to breed such dogs will have needed to bring a dog with a dominant Black gene into the equation to produce the dogs they call Black Boxers.........which makes them Xbreeds....and if you look at any of these sites , you can tell they are not 100% pure Boxer.

The white Boxer is something completely different... the white is and can be traced to Frau Stockmann and her counterparts, who are the founders of the breed ... the white gene is still very much a dominant gene in the breed... apart from the first world war , when the boxer was used as carrier /messenger dogs,, white was not a good colour for camouflage... the solid was much more popular, and if you look through the history of the Boxer, you will see many of the old dogs where solid....

So white has always been in the breed, not desired , but there no the less, it is avoidable if we want flashy Boxers, the down fall ofcause was the solid white pup.... which did and still does not conform to breed standard.... but thankfully now days we dont cull them.... the danger of the white is the deaf gene some can carry... but again , people now days are more equipped to take on a deaf dog...

There are 3 colours for the Boxer... Red (fawn) Brindle , or white.

[zoeybeau1]

Just think that when white boxers were drowned years ago as they were not considered worthy, I have seen black brindle boxers and they look gorgeous and I love them so why can't people breed black boxers now?

tis down to genetics, black isnt a normal gene found in boxers genetic make up, but the reverse brindle or dark brindle is very black looking but in the sunlight you can see the stripes of the brindle il look for a piccy for you.xx

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/superdaveracing/moosepics002.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g187/kmh1_08210/reversebrindle.jpg

The best I could find, and you can see the colouring on them.

[dollyk]

Some breeder's still do kill white boxer's I however do not, why for just colour that white baby has every much of a reason to be here than any other colour, yes whites will have deafness, but is that a good enough reason to kill them?
Not no not in my book, some of the nicest Boxer's are indeed white, In all the years I have never had a blind blue eyed or any other colour eyed white boxer, I thought I had a year and half ago, but no he was just coming to terms with being deaf I suspect, we found him a lovely home with a ex-animal society worker, who had a white cat deaf also, I have even re-homed for a friend a deaf red dog, he came with his friend they had been together for years, and George was deaf, and his old owner never knew we had him 4 weeks and noticed straight away, and when i told his old owner he said it explained alot.
I agree i cannot fathom why a breeder would cull a white boxer , Surely they offer the same amount of love and companionship as any other colur in the breed standard ,And they deserve the same love and respect back in return, Yes i know most white puppies can be deaf , But I have known a few deaf dogs who with the right ownership and compasion have lked just as full a life as a hearing Boxer ,
I would not cull or terminate the life of a child because it did not meet up to my expectations so there fore I would not consider doing it to an animal jmpo :)