Merle chi's?

[lassie]

saw an advert recently for merle chihuahuas(i can never spell it correctly LOL). anyone tell me is this a recognised colour?? :cheers:

[skunkstripe]

Lassie, glad you posted this. :D

Apparently there are some strong feelings about this in the US Chi world.

The AKC standard for Chi's (http://www.akc.org/breeds/chihuahua/index.cfm) allows any color:
Any color-Solid, marked or splashed.

However, there is a very long rant on this very topic which suggests that there is quite a bit more to it than simply allowing any and all colors and patterns.

If you have been a part of the Chihuahua world for a while now, or have recently begun researching the merle Chihuahuas, you may be aware of the merle Chihuahua debate, or have come across certain websites and statements about the merle Chihuahuas (and/or breeders of the merle Chihuahuas) that are very negative and are simply not true. I felt that it was important to set forth the other side of the argument and the FACTS about these special and beautiful little dogs that a small (but vocal) minority of breeders unsuccessfully petitioned the Chihuahua Club of America to disqualify from being exhibited, and the TRUTH about the merle Chihuahua refuting the statements this same minority of breeders continue to make in an effort to cast a disparaging shadow over these very special dogs and those breeders who would choose to include the merle Chihuahuas in their breeding programs.
http://members.cox.net/loveschihuahuas/merles.html

[applesmom]

Lassie, glad you posted this. :D

Apparently there are some strong feelings about this in the US Chi world.

The AKC standard for Chi's (http://www.akc.org/breeds/chihuahua/index.cfm) allows any color:


However, there is a very long rant on this very topic which suggests that there is quite a bit more to it than simply allowing any and all colors and patterns.


http://members.cox.net/loveschihuahuas/merles.html

My own opinion:

Shaking my head at the lengths commercial breeders will go to in order to present their mass produced pups over the Internet as carefully bred representatives of the breed.:rolleyes:

I'll bet the legitimate Chihuahua enthusiasts would love to shut her down.

She claims she shows, yet doesn't own a single champion. Has one dog supposedly pointed in UKC.

Claims "championship pedigrees", yet the few champions in a pedigree are so far back as to have very little impact on her (ha ha) "breeding program". Those would not even remotely be considered championship pedigrees by anyone that knows better!

Claims to be "bettering" the breed yet the dogs shown are poor representatives of the breed.

IMO This is a classic example of the tactics commercial breeders use to fool the puppy buying public.:rolleyes:

[lassie]

this is the advert i saw locally

Merles Chihuahua New Litter Very Very Rare
£variuos

stunning absolutley amazeing litter of merles ,you wont see these every day ,blue spot boys and a fawn spot girl to be snapped up if your quick ,full pedigree chihuahuas parents can be seen at home on view ,not cheap but so different ,you will be the envy of all who see them .

£1800 for a rare merle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


fools and their money .

[applesmom]

Here's the real story on a few of the registries and their policies along with the health problems involved in breeding merle chi's.

Let the buyer beware!




To control the pattern in the breed, these countries (kennel clubs and/or breeders) so far have taken action:
Australia (banned registration of merles)
New Zealand (banned registration of merles)
Canada (Merle is now a DQ in the Chihuahua standard)
Great Britain (Merle is now a DQ in the Chihuahua standard)
Germany (Merles can not be shown/bred)





Merle Chihuahuas - time to call a halt" by Dr. Malcolm B. Willis,
(First published by Our Dogs on the 17th Feb 2005 and reproduced here by kind permission of the Author)
Coat colour in the Chihuahua is quite complex because a range of colours is acceptable in both varieties. One colour that does not exist naturally in the breed is Merle.

Merle is a gene that causes patches of lighter colour (usually greyish blue) to appear in the coat. There are two alleles which are termed MM (merle) and M+ (non merle) with merle being dominant to non merle. All breeds carry the merle gene but most have the non merle M+ in duplicate and are thus homozygous for non merle. The dominant merle gene is found in Shetland sheepdogs, Rough Collies, Border Collies, Australian Shepherds, Dachshunds (where it is called dapple) and a few other breeds. A variant exists in Great Danes and Australian Shepherds carry Tweed which is a variant of merle. The Chihuahua does not have MM and all Chihuahuas should be M+M+.
Recently a number of Chihuahuas that carry merle have appeared in USA and are gaining some credence as fashion accessories and the like. Most reputable breeders are against the gene and it would be fair to say that it must have come in through a crossing… probably with Dachshunds. Since the AKC would not register crossbreeds as Chihuahuas one has to conclude that somewhere Dachshunds have appeared in pedigrees as Chihuahuas… with false names? Crossbreeding for a specific purpose, such as Dr Cattanach's work seeking to bring a docked tail into the Boxer, needs to be done under KC approval and supervision so that pedigrees remain correct even if more than one breed is involved. I have no evidence of that in the Chihuahua merle situation.

In case some of you feel that another colour would be fine it is crucial to point out that merle is a dangerous gene. The homozygous merle MMMM is usually white and has very often impaired hearing and sight. For this reason some Kennel Clubs do not recognise merles and many KC's and breeders do not mate merle to merle. Merle to merle would be MMM+ to MMM+ which would give rise (in large numbers) 25% MMMM 50% MMM+ and 25% M+M+ and clearly there are serious problems with the 25% homozygous merles.

The popular belief is that heterozygous merles MMM+ are quite normal.
However some thirty years ago Hannover workers showed eye problems in merle Dachshunds (Wegner and Reetz, 19751 Dausch et al, L977) sperm imperfections (Treu et al, l976) and impaired hearing (Reetz et al, 1977). These problems were found in homozygous merles and also heterozygous merles. Hearing faults ranging from complete deafness to slight hardness of hearing occurred in 54.6% of homozygous merles and 36.8%of heterozygous merles. Based on this work and their own work on eye failings Klinckmann et al (1936) suggested restricting the breeding of merles on welfare grounds.

This means that the long held belief that MMMM dogs had problems but not MMM+ is not true and thus merle is a gene that would be best eliminated as a defect and certainly not introduced to new breeds where it does not really exist such as the Chihuahua.
The KC should ban merle as a colour in Chihuahuas and not register any merles on the grounds that it is a serious defect but also because any merle Chihuahuas may have false pedigrees later back if the crossing with Dachshunds is how the gene was introduced. It may be impossible to prove this but DNA testing might be helpful.
On the other hand non merle dogs M+M+ regardless of ancestry are safe as regards merle because they cannot have it. If a dog has all four grandparents merle but is non merle then it cannot carry the merle gene. On the other hand if it carries Dachshund "blood" it will run the risk of carrying Dachshund problems that may not exist in Chihuahuas at present.

Aside from fashion accessory (God save us!) there is no gain and some loss to be made from the merle in the Chihuahua and thus it needs a combined effort by all kennel clubs to eradicate the gene from the breed.
Let me state that I have a vested interest in that my wife has Chihuahuas!
* Since writing the above article I have come into possession of a report issued by the Board of Directors of the Chihuahua Club of America Inc to members of that club (dated1st May 2004). This has also been circulated to members of the British Chihuahua Ciub.
The report highlights the fact that historically the breed has permitted any colour. I am in favour of such policies which contrasts with some breeds where specific colours are frowned upon or disqualified for no logical reason beyond historical legacy or personal dislike. Thus the Newfoundland standard accepts black-and-white and brown but not brown-and-white, or Tibetan terriers should not be liver. There is no logic in such rules but merle is biologically dangerous and not like any other colour. A colour associated with eye and hearing defects should be selected against, however attractive some people may consider the merle variant. Moreover, the argument that it has been around about 10 years plus does not explain whence it came. There are suggestions that merle can lie hidden (camouflage merles) but merle is a dominant and thus any merle must have at least one merle parent, however pale the pattern is expressed. There is a need to DNA test merles and compare these with DNA tests on Dachshunds whence it appears the colour infiltrated the Chihuahua breed. Are we to breed Chihuahuas or crossbreeds? REFERENCES
Dausch, D. et al (1977) Dtsch. Tierarztl. Wschr. 84: 469-75
Klinckmann, G. et al (1986) l . Vet.Med. A. 33: 674-88
Reetz L et al (1977) Dtsch.Tierarztl.Wschr. 84: 273-7
Treu, H. et al (1976) Zuchthyg. 11: 49-61
Wegner, W. & Reetz,l. {1975) Tierarztl prax, 3: 455-9.



http://www.pedigreedogs.co.uk/k9bytes/merle.htm

[skunkstripe]

OK so now I have a question as an outsider - as I may not be able to read between the lines of the AKC standard or not.
Is the merle pattern a disqualification?

[catz4m8z]

Im not sure on the qualification status but I have to say Ive seen those pups and they are really cute:D. This website is where Im getting my puppy from(only 5 days to go!!). Its a group of about 4-5 small hobby breeders who all share a website to advertise, not a BYB situation. At least I dont think so, I havent much experience but my guy is being bought up in a regular home environment (much tidier than my home:))
I am interested in the merle genetics tho. Are other breeds with merle banned from shows? collies spring to mind.
Also if you were aware of the possible defects would it be possible to breed the deaf aspect out of the merle coat?

[applesmom]

OK so now I have a question as an outsider - as I may not be able to read between the lines of the AKC standard or not.
Is the merle pattern a disqualification?

Merle is disqualification in some registries but not yet in AKC.

IMO a Merle chi should be unregisterable, not just DQ in all registries. First and most importantly because it can be a lethal gene that has been introduced to a breed that already has more than it's share of problems. And secondly because it isn't and never has been a natural coloring in the chi. The Merle coloring is an indication that there has been cross breeding and the dog isn't a purebred. It's just one more designer dog bred to fit the current demand for the unusual and different!:mad:

[applesmom]

Im not sure on the qualification status but I have to say Ive seen those pups and they are really cute:D. This website is where Im getting my puppy from(only 5 days to go!!). Its a group of about 4-5 small hobby breeders who all share a website to advertise, not a BYB situation. At least I dont think so, I havent much experience but my guy is being bought up in a regular home environment (much tidier than my home:))
I am interested in the merle genetics tho. Are other breeds with merle banned from shows? collies spring to mind.
Also if you were aware of the possible defects would it be possible to breed the deaf aspect out of the merle coat?

No it cannot be bred out and keep the coat color. The Merle lethal genes involve much more than deafness. Breeding merle to merle can cause puppies born without eyes, missing limbs and other horrible deformities. Is it really worth the suffering of those puppies just so someone can have a pet of an "unusual" color? :rolleyes:

[lassie]

No ................. rough collies and shelties border collies and aussies can be shown as its a recognised breed standard colour

[happysaz133]

I just googles the merle chihuahua, its strange looking, Iactually don't like that colour!

[catz4m8z]

Well I like the color butwould never encourage buying them if it causes serious birth defects. I feel the same way about tea cups, really chi's are small enough without deliberatly breeding runts:mad:.
Im glad my boy is a nice size and a boring colour:). But what makes a gene for a colour acceptable in one dog but fatal in another? Im sure white can also cause problems for some breeds?
Admittedly Im reeeeaal thick with biology but surely they all have similar doggy genes:confused:

[PrincessRescueDogs]

I recently saw a merle chi on sale for £2500!!!! This is absolutely ridiculous!!! I have a male black chi pup who is 9 weeks. A friend didn't want him after 2 days :eek: so I bought him from her.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c17/juicygemma/PICT0064.jpg

[PrincessRescueDogs]

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c17/juicygemma/PICT0014.jpg

Billy-Noahs parents were standard, so he will grow quite a bit. He is black and tan, and looks like the pup of my Collie X GSD at the mo!!