Dog towards dog aggression... please help!

[mtbgus]

Can anyone think of a way of helping me with my 18 month old Black
Lab, I got him from a dog rescue centre when he was 14 months old. He
had never been given any training I found out after I'd took him,
everything was new to him... eg: leafs blowing on the ground,
streams, birds, other dogs.. and so on. His teeth were very sharp,
so had never had a bone to chew, he went mad when he saw people, sheep
and so on.

Since I've had him I've got him heeling, sitting, staying, down, leave
and he's now very good with people and sheep, birds etc.

The problem is that on a walk if he sees another dog his ears point
forwards, his head erects and his tail slowly wags, nothing.. and I do
mean NOTHING will snap him out of this trance, as he get closer he
gets fast and will not heel, he then goes all out to attack the other
dog. If I turn round and walk away from the other dog before we get
to it he will not stop looking round and pulling me back. Treats will
not distract him as we get closer. haltis, choke chains, harnesses
don't work. noise distraction doesn't work.

He is at dog training classes and spends most of the lesson trying to
attack other dogs, the trainer has worked hard with him but with no
sucess as yet. The dog was neutured at the late age of 14 months when
I got him.

As I say, I've got him into a wonderful happy dog, perfect in everyway
but for the attacking dogs, he will walk close pass many many sheep
with no trouble at all now, that took a lot of training but he's come
through at last, it's just the dogs issue and I see no light at the
end of the tunnel. Any thoughts would be helpful as I'm at a loss on
what to try next.

Gus.

[opokki]

The problem is that on a walk if he sees another dog his ears point forwards, his head erects and his tail slowly wags, nothing.. and I do mean NOTHING will snap him out of this trance, as he get closer he
gets fast and will not heel, he then goes all out to attack the other
dog. If I turn round and walk away from the other dog before we get
to it he will not stop looking round and pulling me back. Treats will
not distract him as we get closer. haltis, choke chains, harnesses
don't work. noise distraction doesn't work.


About how close do you have to be to another dog for him to react?
If he notices the other dog but the other dog is really far away are you able to distract him then?

[kelsiebug]

okay.... have you tried useing a choke collar? my dog use to be like that she would literly try to kill the other dog! she would not move and her ears would pull back.a quick snap would usually get the attention and she would follow me.:) maybe you'll find a way to keepem' from doin this....;) good luck!!!!!
kelsie

[mtbgus]

thanks for the replies, how close do I have to be to another dog? It is the moment he spots the dog, if on a long straight path the other dog could be a dot in the distance, he will still react to sit, stay down commands and so on, but if the dog is (I'd say) within less than 50 feet I can do nothing to distract him. The odd dog he is ok with (male or female), but it really is just the odd dog, he made friends with a 9 month old newfoundland the other day. Some Jack russells he'll walk past, others he won't. The most control I have is with the Halti, but he still hates it 4 months on and rubs his face against my leg most of the walk, regardless of me pulling his head up with the halti with a firm NO! The dog training class will not let me use the halti, I need to use a choke for that. The halti gives me control but I hate using it so alternate between choke and halti.

[MrsRottie]

Firstly - well done you, it sounds like you've come on leaps and bounds in just the 4 months you've had him :)

Headcollar - try a different sort, there's loads of variations on a theme out there. I use a 2 piece check chain and nose piece that connect together, it's brilliant. But I can't remember what it's called, so I'll have a look tonight when I get home and post it.

Keep going the way you are with the other dogs. Ignore his behaviour totally, even if you have a right fight on your hands, but remember at all times that you are the boss, and if you want him to go a certain way, then he's going to do it. But make sure too that you praise him like mad when he behaves himself.

Have you a friend or perhaps your trainer with a 'safe' dog? A bombproof dog who won't react that you can use to help with training yours?

With his 'friends' try teaching him a keyword such as 'be nice' as he initially approached the dog. You know the dog's his friend, so he is going to be nice. Treat also when he's playing nicely.

Noise aversion therapy may be worth trying, you've probably seen it on some other posts - where a plastic bottle is filled with small stones, The idea is to crash it to the floor behind the dog (so he doesn't know where the noise comes from) this then breaks his concentration for a second and you can correct/command etc. But you have to be quick!
For more info, try googling John Fisher Noise Aversion therapy, if you have no joy, let me know and I'll send you the book.

But mainly, don't beat yourself up over this. You've both done so well over the last 4 months, some things will be harder than others to solve, but you'll get there eventually.

Re the trainer - I'm confused as to why they insist on using a choke. All I can say to that is if you don't like the methods used, try someone else!

Best of luck, let us know how you get on!!

[nancy]

Hi I saw this on a dog training program and it worked a treat. Get someone you know with a dog who is placid and wont react to your dogs agressiveness, get the person to make her dog sit, and she needs to hold a big lemonade bottle with stones in it. Put your dog on a long leash and walk him towards the other dog, you stand and as your dog gets to the other one the owner rattles the bottle quite vigourously right in your dogs face and the theary is the dog does'nt like it and will return to his owner as your friend shakes the bottle say his name with a sharp jirk of the lead and tell him to come. Hope this helps it worked on the program but it took quite a few attempts. Good Luck.

[mtbgus]

Many thanks for the sound advise and support, he is the hardest dog I've ever had and I've never had to spend this much time on a dog before. When he first came to me he was very scared if I rised my hand to pet his head, like he throught I would hit him. This in itself tells me he'd had a bad start in life at the hands of someone bad tempered. I can now really move my hand down fast on his head in a "Good Boy" pet and he just looks at me with loving big brown eyes and wagging tail. I've seen the headcollar you talk of, infact I nearly got one today, I may give it a go now.

I will post with progress as it happens.

Angus.

[MrsRottie]

Aw bless him. Well done both, sounds like you've got yourself a star there, all your hard work will pay off in the end x

[sandi]

Go into k-9 training site in yahoo.

Or look at yes, the Horse Whisperer

He in your mind is sweet, but, look at it this way, if he ever breaks loose or drags you, and a child is walking with parents and a dog, you may be in for a lawsuit, if y our dog initiates the incident. I wonder if he had any head trauma, or lack of socialization with mom, or was left to his own devices by previous owner. He needs work, you need to get on it, a private handler trainer, who can walk with you and see what he is doing and perhaps help you out. Also, he is picking up your tension, and he is reacting, perhaps thinking you are in danger . This requires professional help.

Sandi

[mtbgus]

Thanks, I've just got back from dog training, my dog had his moments trying to get at some of the dogs. But on the whole he was a bit better. I took a sideseat tonight and let him watch the other dogs, the moment he even started to make a wrong move towards another dog I removed him from the room and stood in the hallway until he settled down, then heeled him back in. I did this 4 times before he decided to sit quitely fom next 20 minutes. I asked to do this approch this lesson instead of the trainer choking the dog like he did last week, simply because it didn't help matters, it may work on some dogs, but not on mine. I've also got the number of a professional I may try but at the moment she's fully booked up.

[lapdog]

sorry, double post

[lapdog]

I'd recommend a prong collar. It has helped me tremendously with a similar problem. My dog was a lunatic when other dogs approached. The prong is a safe collar that delivers a pinch for correction rather than a choke and does not harm the dog in any way. It gave me control the day I started using it.

Your dog is fearful and/or is guarding you. Relieve him of this duty to protect you by using the prong and keeping him walking beside you on a short lead for the entire walk. When you approach another dog, do not react, do not tense up, do not speak, just keep walking, giving yourself a wide berth around the passing dog. This communicates that you are in charge, you are ok with the passing dog and nothing will happen.

If you are letting him sniff and mark around the neighborhood, stop now. Only let him relieve himself in a designated spot that you allow. Marking the neighborhood reinforces the idea that he has something to protect.

I'd put a hold on classes until you get his behavior to stop. Being surrounded by multiple dogs may not be something he is ready for at this point.

[mtbgus]

I'd recommend a prong collar. It has helped me tremendously with a similar problem. My dog was a lunatic when other dogs approached. The prong is a safe collar that delivers a pinch for correction rather than a choke and does not harm the dog in any way. It gave me control the day I started using it..

I've heard lots of bad reports of prong collars, in the fact of in the wrong hands they can make a bad dog even worse. Advise seems to be to leave alone unless you know what you're doing. Besides, very hard to find them for sale here in the UK, but for import on ebay. The RSPCA are trying to ban them.

I've been thinking of getting Barkbusters in to help, anyone here used them at all?

[MrsRottie]

Hi Angus - pleased to hear that you're making progress!!

I haven't used BarkBusters but I have spoken to them with a view to using them....

They work on the Alpha dominance model. If you read Jan Fennell's The Dog Whisperer (or similar..) that is the system that they use. They are also quite expensive, from what I remember it was around £250, but that is a one-off payment - all continuing help is covered supposedly for the life of the dog.

I take it you're in the UK?? I really would strongly suggest asking your vet for a referral to a behaviourist if that's the way you want to go. I'm really not sure of the qualifications required buy Barkbusters, but if you go through your vet you can be absolutely they will be fully qualified.

Best of Luck!