Splodge77
04-07-2006, 05:41 AM
Hi,
I have a dog and a bitch, neither are neutered and I have a problem with them fighting, I will provide as much background as I think might be relevant.
Jasper is an 18 month old border collie, a little bit nervous and nippy (he has to wear a muzzle if we leave him outside), and quite small for his breed, about 15 kilos. We had him from a young puppy, he was purchased on a local farm, and I have reason to believe he was the runt of the litter.
Jessica is a 40 month old German Sheppard / Husky Cross, very docile now but was the most destructive dog I have seen as a puppy, she is docile but implacable once aroused, she is quite a large dog at around 40 kilos and extremely strong, she was purchased from a breeder who had some sort of cross breeding accident, so she is a first cross, and she was the big fat bellied bully of the pack.
Jasper was purchased for two reasons, one for my wife as Jessica is without a doubt my dog and makes that very clear, and as some company for Jessica as we were soon to be increasing our working day.
When Jasper first came into the house Jessica was most put out, but once our nervousness was aside and we let Jessica have a good sniff and paw of the new puppy, everything was ok, if Jessica was rough Jasper would yelp and then she would lick him all over and be gentler with him.
Jess often tried to play with Jasper as a puppy but this always resulted in Jasper getting hurt at which point he had a psycho switch which seemed to turn, and this little inches high puppy would go absolutely mad at 40 kilo Jessica. He would jump for her eyes, and ears and really snarl and wee everywhere, Jessica would just stand there looking at him, I think she saw him as a naughty puppy, she never hurt him or retaliated at all. These were the first signs that jasper may be trouble; he was nervous and viscous when cornered or hurt.
We seemed to get through this, we were always very careful to feed them at separate sides of the kitchen and Jessica came first with everything. Jasper was fine with this he grew and they even began to play together with less of his violent outbursts. He has always been a wetter though, he is near impossible to train for this reason, he does know come, sit and stop though, but other than that we have cut him some slack as he curls up in a ball shaking and wetting if he thinks you are domineering, I figure this is something to do with his experiences on the farm before we got him, he was covered in cuts and bruises when we received him.
Jessica is well trained and obedient until aroused, Jessica is good with all expected commands, and good with other dogs, only thing that I could never get Jessica to do was walk sensibly on a lead, she is the most horrendous puller. Jessica is also not a food possessive dog, Jasper had always been able to steal from her bowl even if she was stood at it, Jasper guards his food from Jessica with his life though.
Jessica was the alpha, but the only thing jasper was never really allowed to do was play with me, if he was to play with me Jessica would barge in and take the toy, Jasper would let her, and then she would take over, if Jasper tried to play he would get growled at.
Over the last 6 months trouble has kicked off from time to time as Jasper is constantly vying for alpha dog, I guess this is his testicles? The thing is he never beats Jessica, he would impose himself on her, and his would be the only domminant body language, Jess would lay down and give him a shifty look all her hair on end as if ready for trouble but submitting, and he would dance about stood tall, waving his nose over her, and growling.
It was apparent that you could see this coming in Jessica’s body language long before anything erupted, she would not come for her dinner, or she would lay at the far end of the room and not come when called, it registered that whenever she was like this Jasper was dominating as he would start growling as soon as she moved and run over to her at which point she would lay down.
Now I was told by the vet to let this happen, it was them sorting out which dog is going to be alpha and it is not a problem unless it gets to rough, well it has. The odd thing is Jessica submits to Jasper, turns away from him, lays down, sits outside the kitchen when dinner is prepared, all the time letting him do his dominant thing, but I still put Jessica’s dinner down first. Should I instead give Jasper his dinner first?
The thing is although Jessica is submissive to Jasper it does not last, eventually she will do something such as approach a member of the family – usually me, and Jasper will snap at her and she has him. We can usually then break up both dogs (before it gets to much) discipline them and if needed separate them.
The trouble is the fights are getting rougher, Jasper constantly looses his fight for alpha but he will not give up, but Jessica is submissive to him, until she has enough, which I think is confusing him. Jessica only attacks when people are involved.
Last night after dinner I played with Jasper whilst Jessica was finishing up in the Kitchen, When Jessica came in she sat patently waiting for her turn, which is not like her, eventually I passed Jessica the toy and Jasper grabbed the other side and growled, not playfully. I think this was encroaching Jessica’s most precious alpha thing, as she snatched the toy and lay under the table with it.
Jasper put on his dominant arched back pointy nose look and approached the table, and Jessica lunged for him, from a seemingly submissive laid down posture (The truth was probably in her eyes)? And quite literally savaged him, I had to prize her jaws apart to release his face, and in the process I was bitten by both dogs, however neither meant to attack me, and although I know breaking up a dog fight is not advised I feared for Jaspers life.
I need this to stop. I don’t want to get rid of either dog as we love them both, but Jessica is unhappy, the dogs don’t even play together anymore and have not done for around 3 months or so, my concern is that now it has reached the point of Jessica attacking that Jasper will get killed, in short she is not holding back anymore, why does he not know he has lost the alpha fight? Why is Jessica sometimes submissive and then attacks? Am I confusing them somehow? Will getting the dogs neutered solve the problems? Should I try giving Jasper alpha privileges?
Very grateful for any advice.
Thanks
I have a dog and a bitch, neither are neutered and I have a problem with them fighting, I will provide as much background as I think might be relevant.
Jasper is an 18 month old border collie, a little bit nervous and nippy (he has to wear a muzzle if we leave him outside), and quite small for his breed, about 15 kilos. We had him from a young puppy, he was purchased on a local farm, and I have reason to believe he was the runt of the litter.
Jessica is a 40 month old German Sheppard / Husky Cross, very docile now but was the most destructive dog I have seen as a puppy, she is docile but implacable once aroused, she is quite a large dog at around 40 kilos and extremely strong, she was purchased from a breeder who had some sort of cross breeding accident, so she is a first cross, and she was the big fat bellied bully of the pack.
Jasper was purchased for two reasons, one for my wife as Jessica is without a doubt my dog and makes that very clear, and as some company for Jessica as we were soon to be increasing our working day.
When Jasper first came into the house Jessica was most put out, but once our nervousness was aside and we let Jessica have a good sniff and paw of the new puppy, everything was ok, if Jessica was rough Jasper would yelp and then she would lick him all over and be gentler with him.
Jess often tried to play with Jasper as a puppy but this always resulted in Jasper getting hurt at which point he had a psycho switch which seemed to turn, and this little inches high puppy would go absolutely mad at 40 kilo Jessica. He would jump for her eyes, and ears and really snarl and wee everywhere, Jessica would just stand there looking at him, I think she saw him as a naughty puppy, she never hurt him or retaliated at all. These were the first signs that jasper may be trouble; he was nervous and viscous when cornered or hurt.
We seemed to get through this, we were always very careful to feed them at separate sides of the kitchen and Jessica came first with everything. Jasper was fine with this he grew and they even began to play together with less of his violent outbursts. He has always been a wetter though, he is near impossible to train for this reason, he does know come, sit and stop though, but other than that we have cut him some slack as he curls up in a ball shaking and wetting if he thinks you are domineering, I figure this is something to do with his experiences on the farm before we got him, he was covered in cuts and bruises when we received him.
Jessica is well trained and obedient until aroused, Jessica is good with all expected commands, and good with other dogs, only thing that I could never get Jessica to do was walk sensibly on a lead, she is the most horrendous puller. Jessica is also not a food possessive dog, Jasper had always been able to steal from her bowl even if she was stood at it, Jasper guards his food from Jessica with his life though.
Jessica was the alpha, but the only thing jasper was never really allowed to do was play with me, if he was to play with me Jessica would barge in and take the toy, Jasper would let her, and then she would take over, if Jasper tried to play he would get growled at.
Over the last 6 months trouble has kicked off from time to time as Jasper is constantly vying for alpha dog, I guess this is his testicles? The thing is he never beats Jessica, he would impose himself on her, and his would be the only domminant body language, Jess would lay down and give him a shifty look all her hair on end as if ready for trouble but submitting, and he would dance about stood tall, waving his nose over her, and growling.
It was apparent that you could see this coming in Jessica’s body language long before anything erupted, she would not come for her dinner, or she would lay at the far end of the room and not come when called, it registered that whenever she was like this Jasper was dominating as he would start growling as soon as she moved and run over to her at which point she would lay down.
Now I was told by the vet to let this happen, it was them sorting out which dog is going to be alpha and it is not a problem unless it gets to rough, well it has. The odd thing is Jessica submits to Jasper, turns away from him, lays down, sits outside the kitchen when dinner is prepared, all the time letting him do his dominant thing, but I still put Jessica’s dinner down first. Should I instead give Jasper his dinner first?
The thing is although Jessica is submissive to Jasper it does not last, eventually she will do something such as approach a member of the family – usually me, and Jasper will snap at her and she has him. We can usually then break up both dogs (before it gets to much) discipline them and if needed separate them.
The trouble is the fights are getting rougher, Jasper constantly looses his fight for alpha but he will not give up, but Jessica is submissive to him, until she has enough, which I think is confusing him. Jessica only attacks when people are involved.
Last night after dinner I played with Jasper whilst Jessica was finishing up in the Kitchen, When Jessica came in she sat patently waiting for her turn, which is not like her, eventually I passed Jessica the toy and Jasper grabbed the other side and growled, not playfully. I think this was encroaching Jessica’s most precious alpha thing, as she snatched the toy and lay under the table with it.
Jasper put on his dominant arched back pointy nose look and approached the table, and Jessica lunged for him, from a seemingly submissive laid down posture (The truth was probably in her eyes)? And quite literally savaged him, I had to prize her jaws apart to release his face, and in the process I was bitten by both dogs, however neither meant to attack me, and although I know breaking up a dog fight is not advised I feared for Jaspers life.
I need this to stop. I don’t want to get rid of either dog as we love them both, but Jessica is unhappy, the dogs don’t even play together anymore and have not done for around 3 months or so, my concern is that now it has reached the point of Jessica attacking that Jasper will get killed, in short she is not holding back anymore, why does he not know he has lost the alpha fight? Why is Jessica sometimes submissive and then attacks? Am I confusing them somehow? Will getting the dogs neutered solve the problems? Should I try giving Jasper alpha privileges?
Very grateful for any advice.
Thanks