BYB aka backyard breeders

[dlambertz]

so i am hoping to either open some eyes or have my eyes opened. if you are a backyard breeder why are you breeding your dogs?

i am an advocate for spaying and neutering and find that a good breeder is making little if any money from a litter. that a male and a female should both bring the same price. a good breeder will be responsible for all pups they put on the ground, either buying them back or taking them back if the pup finds itself of needing to be placed in a new home. a good breeder breeds champions and breeds to the standard of the breed. that they will never breed a substandard dog that is either of ill temperment or confirmation.

imo backyard breeders are breeding for money. if that is not the truth what are you breeding for? enlighten me if you would ...

[Cheetah]

There are more reasons than money. Some say they are breeding because their dog is "pretty." Or because they think it has a good temperament (without the dog actually being proven of course). Or because "they want one of their dogs' puppies just because." Or because they have friends who want the dog's puppies.... or because they've been begged to stud the dog out (like me... UGH!). There are several more I've heard before but I just can't remember right now lol...

[dlambertz]

There are more reasons than money.

i know but i think what it really boils down to is money. i know that people who think because the dog is registered it is a quality dog, i know of others who think they have such a nice dog they want to pass that on... like there is not another nice dog in the breed? the parent who wants their child to experience the birth... take them to a farm and let them see the calving process :) i know that they come up with lots of excuses but imo it still comes down to the almighty $

[ruffian]

A good breeder also has all of their dogs OFA and Cert tests done every 1-2 years as the tests state. And money is no factor in their breeding.

Anoth thing I would like to know is why the heck do these people insist on breeding mutts and why does the continental kennel club regester them???? With over 400 real true breeding breeds out there you cannot convince me that crossing a pug and a beagle will make a dog that different than what is already out there.

[MrsRottie]

It makes my blood boil for a variety of reasons - not least that I fell into the trap of a BYB - I didn't really know what I was doing, looked through the ads in the local newspaper and went and got Oscar. Now he's the light of my life, don't get me wrong, but he has a seriously dodgy stomach, both ED and HD (only traces as yet...) and has progressive retinal atrophy so badly in both eyes he is virtually completley blind and has not yet reached the age of 3. Had the 'breeder' bothered to have any of the health checks done on the sire and dam my Oz would not be here, simply because when it comes to breed standard he is no-where near! All 3 conditions are very common in the breed, there really is no excuse as to why it wasn't done.

Just the other day my friend was looking for a dog so I had a look again in the back of the paper. Her requirements were way different to mine, she lives on her own with no kids etc. The amount of ex-breeding dogs of age 2/3 that were up for offer was disgusting. I can't help but feel they expect litter after litter from these dogs, and as soon as the numbers drop too low or god forbid some of the pups die, they are got rid of.
(I managed to help re-home one of my dog's sister's with her from the same rescue)

[lassie]

We have one locally . . impossible to stop him as he moves on to other local districts. So by the time anybody complains about him, and the council are so slow in acting on information, he's in another area.
Doesnt have the dogs tested for heriditary problems that are within the breed. In this case the breed is badly affected by HD. Some people have spent £5000 pounds to give their poor dog a quality of life.

What really gets my back up is the fact that a lot of these dogs are insured. And at the end of the day pet people with healthier dogs are paying higher insurance premiums because of greedy puppy farmers. GRRRRRRRRRRRR

[dlambertz]

my dogs parents were all ofa certified and one of my dogs was given a two year health guarantee against genetic issues, instead of the normal one year. i think i found the best breeders available for me. it is more that looking in your local paper i don't think i spent anymore on anyone of my dogs from a reputable breeder than i would have buying them from a byb who would probably not give me a health guarantee or have had the necessary tests done on the parents.

[skunkstripe]

Well I am not breeding, but there are a number of BYBs around where I live. I think some of them do it for "fun" and to sell the dogs. But I think there are also a lot who are just doing it because it is a cheap way to get dogs. Look at it this way. If you do not have very much money and you want a dog, what do you do? You can forget a "reputable" breeder, because they want upwards of $500 or so for a dog around here. I am not saying whether this is justified or not, only saying that that is about the price. $500 is s LOT of money to some people. Pet stores also charge a few hundred dollars for a dog.
You could say they should try a shelter, but sometimes shelters are icky about adopting out. Again, this seems to be something particulr to the region where I live, where we have a 'dog shortage'. Shelters bring dogs up from the South (that's how I got Zircon) because otherwise there is not much to choose from. So I have heard people who I thought were perfectly nice, responsible people say that it was impossible to get a dog from the same shelter that I got Zircon from because they were not considered qualified adopters. Makes me wonder how they let ME have Zircie, since he is my first dog!
So anyway, now that someone has the possibility to breed their own dogs, they do not have to hassle with shelters or pay big bucks to breeders. They can supply friends and family for cheap. And most of the BYBs around here do not charge very much, it is like $10-$50 for a puppy. Nobody doing any 'designer dogs' around here!

[dlambertz]

And most of the BYBs around here do not charge very much, it is like $10-$50 for a puppy. Nobody doing any 'designer dogs' around here!

they are just adding to an already overpopulated situation. with the dogs they are breeding they are taking away from the dogs who need a home. yes, humane societies and rescues are extremely precauctious about who they adopt too. they do not want those dogs to be returned. it is hard enough to rehome a dog once but try one that has been returned two or more times.

$10 - $50 for a pup? that isn't even enough to cover the first vet visit let alone the first two sets of puppy shots needed. so basically you are buying a pup that runs the risk of health problems. have you ever had to pay vet bills on a pup you fell so in love with but found out he is not gentically healthy? or even have to put that dog to sleep? it is very sad and very preventable if the pup was bred by an owner that doesn't have a price tag on the dogs head or health. another words if the breeder finds something wrong with a dog they are taken to the vet to find out the problem.

i have paid in excess of the amount you listed from a reputable breeder. my dogs have no health issues or concerns. they all came with health guarantees and vet records. i have had a dog (rescue) that did not come from the same situation and that dog had to be put down but before we got to that point i spent well in excess than the price of a dog from a reputable breeder in vet bills trying to save a dog's life that should have never been born.

buying an animal is the cheapest part of ownership. it is the on going care that it costs to take care of an animal properly where the real money starts getting spent.
course...as i always state ...jmo!

[Cheetah]

Yup, if you can't afford to even BUY a good dog that won't end up burning holes in your wallet with vet bills, or supporting BYBs that will just produce more unhealthy pups, it's best to not get a dog and to wait until you CAN afford it.

If you cannot afford to buy from a reputable breeder who will charge $600 and up just to get the money back they spent on health tests, vet bills, lab fees, etc., go to the local shelter or a rescue and save a life for $75-100. You can get a dog that's already fixed, and they usually give you certificates for money off vaccinations.

[retriever crazy]

what is the difference between breeders and back yard breeders?

[dlambertz]

are you talking about a reputable breeder and a byb? if so here is my take on it
a backyard breeder is breeding for profit, for the experience, to give a pup to a friend/family member any number of reasons simular to that. they sell the pups and in most cases never hear from the owners again. have no intention of taking back the puppys they brought into the world once those papers have been signed.

in my experience with a reputable breeder... the parents have had genetic testing done. the parents have been shown and have champion bloodlines, they meet the breed standard. they are breeding purely with the breeds best interest in mind. they guarantee the health of their pups and will take back the dog if the purchaser is not able to keep for whatever reason. the pups are vetted as well as the parents. it is not cheap to be a reputable breeder.

[skunkstripe]

"Breeders" and "BYBs" both breed dogs.
The difference is that "breeders" do things like have their dogs tested for eyesight, bone structure, etc, and try to breed only healthy dogs. They also usually participate in some kind of competition to prove that their dogs are either unusually attractive or can do something typical for the breed (like retrievers have to swim after rubber decoys) or something particularly useful (like guide dogs or bomb-sniffing dogs).

BYBs usually just let their dog and the neighbor dog do it and make puppies. Some will make a point of trying to get a specific breed (they have a German Shepherd so they try to find someone else with a German Shepherd) or breed mix (they have a Jack Russell and try to find someone with a poodle.)

It is actually not quite that simple. First there is more to it than what I just wrote. Second, there are exceptions. Not all "reputable breeders" really are, just like there are BYBs out there who take far more care with the health of their dogs than you might think.

But this is a start..

[dlambertz]

"Breeders" and "BYBs" both breed dogs.

Great Post!

[retriever crazy]

thanks everyone i get it now :)

[lassie]

Well i breed occasionally so if you need any info . please feel free to ask
I have just mated my bitch so maybe ill start a new link a give you a weekly diary of cost ........health etc.

[lassie]

Hidden away from prying eyes, many thousands of female dogs are housed in agricultural barns and sheds, crudely adapted for the purpose of the mass breeding of dogs. Brood bitches exist solely to produce puppies, mere breeding machines for commercial gain by their owners. Breeding establishments operate throughout the UK, but since the mid fifties, West Wales has provided one of the major sources of puppies traded commercially throughout the world.

Born into a cold hostile world, tiny puppies, are hostage to fortune. Bred in atrocious conditions where their mothers often live a miserable existence in cramped, crude, unhygienic conditions, they are exposed to stress and disease. In West Wales, puppy farms have been established for over 40 years, but in the past decade, as demand has dramatically increased, the number of breeding establishments throughout Britain has risen alarming due to the existence of a large dealer network. They are the lynchpin of the trade, the middlemen and act as the link between breeder and pet shop. They collect and transport hundreds of puppies to pet retailers and commercial outlets throughout the UK. Many others are exported, mainly to the Far East, Japan, Hong Kong and China.

This trade in young pet animals is steeped in cruelty and abuse, from the breeder through transportation by the dealers and in to the pet outlets where puppies are treated as mere commodities by greedy profiteers. Behind their closed doors can lie a sordid tale of misery and neglect. The silent suffering of mans best friend is a sad indictment of a society which allows this to happen.

Taken from puppy watch website!

[skunkstripe]

We got our second dog, Sophia from that kind of situation. She was supposed to be "momma" in a breeding kennel. For some reason they did not want her anymore so they at least had the decency to let a rescue have her, and that was how we got her.

[Sara]

In the town I live in , there's a pet shop called Petland. They have a full wall with glass "tanks" with puppies standing on wire floors. Most of them have no food, and with empty water bottles hanging on the side. Many of the puppies look too young to be taken from their mothers and their bellies are swollen from worms and infested with fleas. How this ever got into such a pet-concious society boggled me. One day I went into PetLand looking for some flea medication for Sara (which I now use Revolution) and saw many MANY people looking at and adoring these sickly puppies. A few of the puppies, namely a St. Bernard which looked emaciated and mangy, were taken out for customers to play with. One man bought the St. Bernard. I asked one of the employees (a man who breeds hairless rats) how much the puppies were going for, and he said all thier dogs sell of $999. Are we as a society that uninformed as to pay nearly a thousand dollars for a sickly puppy from a puppy mill? Since then, I've seen people picketing and protesting Petland, but it did no good. Every now and then I still stop in Petland to see what their puppies (and other animals) look like. I don't think it'll ever change without a strict law passing to prohibit this inhumane practice.

[ruffian]

unless governments pass laws prohibiting pet shops from selling dogs and cats and other animals as well this will continue, some people just don't have the sence to walk away.

By other animals I mean things that get so big that people just refuse to take care of them ie. iguanas, water dragons, red tail boas, some tortises, large parrots like macaws and cockatoos. There are even some fish that should not be sold arawonas spring to mind.

These animals do not come from places much better than the pups, and average people just don't have the knowlege, time or money to house and care for them properly.

I refuse to frequent or patronize any pet shop that sells pups.

[dlambertz]

I refuse to frequent or patronize any pet shop that sells pups.

what a great stance... one of our pet shops that is locally owned said they only buy from reputable breeders so it is different from other pet shops. they must think i was born at night. no reputable breeder will sell their pups to a pet shop. they want to know where that pup is and if the home it is in is satisfactory.

[lassie]

no reputable breeder will sell their pups to a pet shop. they want to know where that pup is and if the home it is in is satisfactory.

of course they do

[dlambertz]

of course they do
no i do not believe a "reputable" breeder will sell to pet stores. none i know would. reputable being the keyword here.

[Sara]

It's the same way with other animals. I also have 6 rats. There's a petshop in a town near me that actually breeds their own rats, as feeders and/or pets...which ever sells the fastest. I have 2 rats that were given to me from there because one of the women was afraid that these two would become feeders (she said they were just too cute to die...I dunno why these two, when there were so many other.) In this back room, where they breed and "store" the rats, there must have been at least 200 in there. There would be 3 females, each with a littler of pups, kept in a 10 gallon tank. It was a puppy mill of rats. I heard the same thing happens with birds, hamsters, etc. I just don't understand why people buy from these places.

[Cheetah]

Today, I was in a pet store with my grandmother, and they had pekingese.... my grandmother used to show/breed them... she was like "awww pekes.... not good pekes but pekes!" I'm like "yeah well just think where they came from and it explains everything."

I got the dirtiest look from the lady closest to me... If looks could kill... >O.o<

[DidoTeaka]

Just curious... I know that when you purchase a ferret from a petstore, they are already altered so they cannot reproduce. It is illegal to breed ferrets if you do not have a breeding license. Now, I've never bought a puppy from a petstore so I was curious as to if they are already altered as well??

[dlambertz]

Just curious... I know that when you purchase a ferret from a petstore, they are already altered so they cannot reproduce. It is illegal to breed ferrets if you do not have a breeding license. Now, I've never bought a puppy from a petstore so I was curious as to if they are already altered as well??

the pet store where i live does not alter the pets. you have full breeding rights you just don't have a genetic or parentage health info. the pups are not being bred to breed standard in many cases... ie... there was a huge yorkie pup that was returned because she didn't fit the standard... in looking at her. the "knowledgeable" pet store employees and owner should have realized she was not a yorkie at all. body to long, ears set up high, coat texture and muzzle...this little girl was a silky terrier.

[Sara]

When I talked to the employee at the pet store here that sells puppies, I asked if they had a spay/neuter program and other things, like vaccinations, etc. They said the puppies get their first set of shot, then sent to where ever they're bought. She said they worm them, but most looked like a vet never looked at them. You're think for paying a thousand bucks for a puppy mill dog, the least they could do is spay/neuter it when it's old enough. Especially since it's usually first time dog owners who buy these animals.

[lassie]

no i do not believe a "reputable" breeder will sell to pet stores. none i know would. reputable being the keyword here.
NO i meant breeders reputable want TO KNOW exactly where their pups are going to:;)

[lassie]

well i WOULD NEVER sell a pup to those establishments. Gosh cant believe you would think i would endorse that sort of practice,

[dlambertz]

NO i meant breeders reputable want TO KNOW exactly where their pups are going to:;)
sorry...i read it wrong... i agree with you any reputable breeder wants to know where their pups go. even than i suppose a breeder could be fooled but at least have some peace of mind.

[dlambertz]

well i WOULD NEVER sell a pup to those establishments. Gosh cant believe you would think i would endorse that sort of practice,

if this is directed at me... i never thought you would. i just figured from what i misread, is that you knew of some "reputable" breeders who did.

when i purchase a pup i want to see vet records, health tests passed (ofa, hd etc.) i want to see both parents...

[lassie]

if this is directed at me... i never thought you would. i just figured from what i misread, is that you knew of some "reputable" breeders who did.

when i purchase a pup i want to see vet records, health tests passed (ofa, hd etc.) i want to see both parents...

thats ok then , i dont know any one who would and would never want to;)

with regards to seeing both parents its not always possible as most reputable breeders look to other kennels when using a stud dog. In my case the dog has gone back to France.

[ruffian]

DidoTeaka
Junior Member




Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 5



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Just curious... I know that when you purchase a ferret from a petstore, they are already altered so they cannot reproduce. It is illegal to breed ferrets if you do not have a breeding license. Now, I've never bought a puppy from a petstore so I was curious as to if they are already altered as well??
__________________



Mindy, ferrets are spayed and neutered at the same time as descenting or 2 reasons, to prevent the animals from haveing to go under 2 times. The second reason is since ferrets are a member of the weasel family when the females go into heat tey remain in heat until they are bred and this can cause anemia and death.
~Mindy~

[lassie]

Sorry no idea. Over here i dont think you can buy a ferret from a pet store.

[DidoTeaka]

Mindy, ferrets are spayed and neutered at the same time as descenting or 2 reasons, to prevent the animals from haveing to go under 2 times. The second reason is since ferrets are a member of the weasel family when the females go into heat tey remain in heat until they are bred and this can cause anemia and death.
~Mindy~

I understand that ruffian... I've owned 4 ferrets. My question was concerning whether dogs are handled the same way. I used the ferrets as reference ;)

[dlambertz]

I understand that ruffian... I've owned 4 ferrets. My question was concerning whether dogs are handled the same way. I used the ferrets as reference ;)

i know here if you buy a kitten or a puppy from the pet store it is not altered. i know a couple who bought two shih tzu's and later bred them. (apr registered) scary thought.

even our humane society does not alter animals before they are adopted out. you get a 15-20 rebate depending on if it is a cat or a dog. :(

[lassie]

all my breed rescues spay or neuter before rehoming. Certainly is a good idea.

[dlambertz]

i think most re-homing places do... i would like to see it put in place here.

[lassie]

i think most re-homing places do... i would like to see it put in place here.
would be a good idea;) lets hope it takes off soon. Most centres here do. if not all i think.