View Full Version : White Shepherd History and info
Nicolelj
03-12-2007, 08:42 PM
My passion is White Shepherds. I will hopefully be breeding my very first litter of them this spring. So I thought I would create a thread about their history so others can learn about this magestic breed.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/NicoleLJ_2003/9CE7B80C-B38D-10DE-AB9F02CADB68E181.jpg
The color white is one of the original colors of the German Shepherd Dog (GSD). Max Von Stephanitz, the person who created the GSD breed, owned several white German Shepherds. Hektor, the first registered German Shepherd Dog grandsire, Greif, was white. Ann Tracy's Stoneihurst Edmond, who was whelped in March 27, 1917, was the first registered white German Shepherd Dog who was born and bred in the United States.
The white color became a disqualification in the GSD Standard by the German Shepherd Dog Club of America over 40 years ago. Before that time the white German Shepherd Dog also competed in conformation events along side its colored counterparts.
The White Shepherd can still be registered with the AKC as German Shepherd Dogs but because of the color disqualification, they can not be shown in the AKC conformation ring. Which is one of hte main reasons White Shepherd fanciers wish for breed seperation. So that we can enjoy the same rights that the colored German Shepherd Dog fanciers enjoy.
There are many falsehoods that still exist today about the genetics of the white gene in the White Shepherd. Some like to say it is an albino trait or that it causes deafness or blindness. Other say it is the cause of fading or health problems. All this has been proven to be untrue. Many of the falsehoods about the White Shepherd happened before modern genetics research. Even though these rumors have been proven to be false, the rumors have been hard to correct.
The falsehoods about the White Shepherds and the gene that causes their coat color are many. First White Shepherds are NOT albinos. Albinos have no pigment and usually pink eyes. The White Shepherds have brown eyes and black pigment on their noses, mouth, paw pads, eye rims,sometimes a black dusting in their ears and sometimes have darker skin and nails.
Color paling was another rumor that has since been proven false. The white gene is a masking gene, not a dilute gene (such as liver and blue). A masking gene hides the real color and pattern of the dog. A White Shepherd can be any color found in the German Shepherd Dog like black, black and tan, black and red, black and silver, black and cream, blue, liver, sable, saddled and bi-colored. The only time dilution could occur is when a White Shepherd is masking a diluted color like blue or liver. The white gene is a recessive gene. The only thing the gene expresses is coat color. It does not cause poor health, temperament or any other.
In the 1960's, the white color became a disqualifying fault in the German Shepherd Dog standard determined by the German Shepherd Dog Club of America. Before this happened, the white German Shepherd Dog was able to compete with its "colored" counterparts in the AKC conformation ring. The White Shepherd can still be registered as a German Shepherd Dog by the AKC and can still participate in AKC performance events.
For over 30 years, white German Shepherd Dog fanciers worked to change the German Shepherd Dog standard to allow them to once again show in the AKC conformation ring. This has not worked. And shows very little chance of actually coming about. Hence the reason for breed seperation.
In the UKC the White Shepherd can compete as a German Shepherd Dog or a White Shepherd. The White Shepherd has also succeeded in becoming a seperate breed with the FCI as well.
White Shepherds can perform in and excel at AKC performance events like obedience, tracking, agility, flyball and herding trials. White Shepherds can be police dogs, bomb detection dogs, drug sniffing dogs, and Search and Rescue dogs just to list a few. They are also great family pets, service dogs, farm dogs, therapy dogs, and they have also apeared in many movies and tv shows. The ablities of these dogs have no end.
Here are some great links to check out and learn more about this beautiful breed.
White Shepherd Club of Canada
http://www.whiteshepherdclub.ca/
United White Shepherd Club
http://www.unitedwhiteshepherdclub.org/
American White Shepherd Association
http://www.awsaclub.com/
White Shepherd Genetics Project
http://www.wsgenetics.org/
Enjoy
Nicole & Sheena
Doberman's
03-12-2007, 08:44 PM
Fantastic Nicole !
Thanks for sharing that.
Aaaand to add on - the White Shepherd was recognized by the FCI as the Berger Blanc Suisse or White Swiss Shepherd...this is because a male named Lobo was imported from the States to Switzerland were he was bred. The whites began to take off and the Swiss BBS club petitioned the FCI for recognition, which they were granted. They are very popular now all over the world, and structurally have changed some from their German Ancestors.
The FCI BBS is also registerable in the UKC under the name White Shephred.
And a cool little bit from the Swiss - the Swiss breeding stock is amazing. The test the hec out of those dogs...from the time they are six months on they have to be tested at Zurch or Bern for all manner of things before they are allowed to be registered as breeding dogs. Because of this the BBS lines in Switzerland are very, very good...and I believe they have travelled all over so genetically these animals are also very sound...or at least no less sound than their German brethren. :)
:)
I know more about the european dogs because my pup to be is one :p
Nicolelj
03-12-2007, 08:53 PM
Aaaand to add on - the White Shepherd was recognized by the FCI as the Berger Blanc Suisse or White Swiss Shepherd...this is because a male named Lobo was imported from the States to Switzerland were he was bred. The whites began to take off and the Swiss BBS club petitioned the FCI for recognition, which they were granted. They are very popular now all over the world, and structurally have changed some from their German Ancestors.
:)
I know more about the european dogs because my pup to be is one :p
:) Actually I stated that in my first post near the bottom that the FCI recognizes them now as a seperate breed.
Nicole & Sheena
sheplovr
03-12-2007, 09:07 PM
Why in Germany and other countries do they kill the whites and black Shepherds. Long coats also. They want only the standard Max founded and non other>>? I am confused? My German Friend, Gertie does not kill her long coats she sells them much cheaper to good home of pets. She never had a white or black shepherd. I ask about my problem and she said to check if either were inbred so it shows how some Germans pass on junk to us if we do not study hard enough. I am going to check this tomorrow I am just too exhausted now
Nicolelj
03-12-2007, 09:09 PM
Why in Germany and other countries do they kill the whites and black Shepherds. Long coats also.
I am sorry but this is not true. Yes the hard core breeders do cull them but the majority don't. Most just fix them and sell them as pets. And there are White Shepehrd breeders in Germany that register their dogs as BBS.
Nicole & Sheena
As long as you are breeding one homozygous dominant to another homozygous dom. (or heterozygous dom.) you will not get the white color because the dominant color gene will always win out. This may be the case with your friend...the same goes for the long coat...it is a homozygous recessive gene.
ooo, sorry, I was just adding on a little to your post about the FCI thing Nicole :D. I have a fascination with the swiss, and I am going to take a couple of weeks next winter to go futzing through the country talking to breeders...maybe I can get some info off of them :D
And honostly, I dont think anyone is better than the other...they are all wonderful!!!!
I once saw this ENOURMOUS long coat black...and I fell in love with GSDs that day...then I saw a BBS in Switzerland and fell in love even more...they are all great :D
Nicolelj
03-12-2007, 09:17 PM
I have a fascination with the swiss, and I am going to take a couple of weeks next winter to go futzing through the country talking to breeders...maybe I can get some info off of them :D
And honostly, I dont think anyone is better than the other...they are all wonderful!!!!
I once saw this ENOURMOUS long coat black...and I fell in love with GSDs that day...then I saw a BBS in Switzerland and fell in love even more...they are all great :D
Mke sure you share that info once you get it. lol I am always wanting to learn all I can.
I agree. I love both White Shepherds and GSD's equally.
Nicole & SHeena
I thought since this is a WS specific thread I would post a pic of the dog that first made me fall in love with this wonderful breed (it took a year of researching before I figured out what it was though...me and dad were stuped...the but was too high and the size too small and the fur too long to be a german shepherd...we though this one was a wolf or husky mixed with GSD...glad we finally cleared that up...and now ones coming home!!!!
okey, piccees
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/catehelf/My%20Own%20Personal%20Paradise%20-%20Switzerland/A_Me%20and%20Awsome%20Dog%201.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/catehelf/My%20Own%20Personal%20Paradise%20-%20Switzerland/A_Me%20and%20Awsome%20Dog%202.jpg
This was at a little resteraunt that was on the mountain along one of the ski trails...my class stopped for drinks and I played with the dog for an hour or so :p
edit : boo, it wont post that pic...is it allright if the link is there? Its just the picture.
Nicolelj
03-12-2007, 09:29 PM
Beautiful dog. Love the look of the area you are in as well.
Nicole & Sheena
sheplovr
03-12-2007, 10:04 PM
I also like them but having Germans living in my home 3 times I know what they do they tell me so. I love all animals and could never kill one GOD knows, I just lost 5 pups born dead, I am just sick. I am mentally gone right now. I just know the Germans well, I am going over there If my health permits and I will see for myself. I can also tell you the pm's I have sent to Bonzimom from Germany they are sending me. I wish you all the best I would never put any dogs down, they are beautiful
I also like them but having Germans living in my home 3 times I know what they do they tell me so. I love all animals and could never kill one GOD knows, I just lost 5 pups born dead, I am just sick. I am mentally gone right now. I just know the Germans well, I am going over there If my health permits and I will see for myself. I can also tell you the pm's I have sent to Bonzimom from Germany they are sending me. I wish you all the best I would never put any dogs down, they are beautiful
I know that :p
It may be that the lines you come from are some of the harsher breeders...I dont agree with it but that is their perogative. And I know you are tired...gosh, I keep saying I wish, but I cant really help other than with words. Take a break, eat some choclate, and get some rest...we're all praying for you!
sheplovr
03-12-2007, 10:22 PM
Thank you sweetie I am going to try and get some sleep for I got none last night if anybody asks u how hard is it breeding tell them I said it is truly the worse work have done in my lifetime. I did horses for some 35 yrs, foaling a mare was easy compared to this. Night honey.
Nicolelj
03-12-2007, 10:26 PM
I also like them but having Germans living in my home 3 times I know what they do they tell me so. I love all animals and could never kill one GOD knows, I just lost 5 pups born dead, I am just sick. I am mentally gone right now. I just know the Germans well, I am going over there If my health permits and I will see for myself. I can also tell you the pm's I have sent to Bonzimom from Germany they are sending me. I wish you all the best I would never put any dogs down, they are beautiful
I understand and no offence intended when I corrected your info. The thing is one or even some people telling you what the WHOLE of a country is doing does not make their info correct. That would be like me saying All of Alberta is Mormons. There are many Mormons living in Alberta but not all the people here are Mormons. So the same rides true with the miss info you recieved. Yes some hard core fanatic breeders do cull the whites that show up in their litters. But not all breeders in Germany do. That is my whole point. Some do and some don't. That is all.
I am sorry about the pups. That hd to be awful to go though. I hope the others continue to do well.
Nicole & Sheena
Nachtstern
04-07-2007, 03:13 AM
Just pointing out some of your errors which nobody else has caught:
"The color white is one of the original colors of the German Shepherd Dog (GSD). Max Von Stephanitz, the person who created the GSD breed, owned several white German Shepherds. Hektor, the first registered German Shepherd Dog grandsire, Greif, was white."
Max von Stephanitz never owned or endorsed the breeding of white German Shepherds. The majority of his dogs were Sable, the others being Black Bi.
Hektor was not the first registered German Shepherd, he is the son of the first registered German Shepherd and the first German Shepherd to take the VA Siegerschau win two times in a row. Horand vom Grafrath was the first registered German Shepherd. His grandfather was white but the intention in getting him wasn't to get a dog who carried the gene for full white but to get a stable working dog who wasn't fully white.
Horand v. Grafrath was the first dog, but according to Anne Perry Hektor produced the most important sire who was beowulf....
I think many people have seperated the white breed because they are not allowed....should they be allowed back into the standard they probably would not have been bred as a seperate breed, but rather as just another color such as sables and Bi's.
Uh, Nicole! Your dog is beautiful! :eek: Where does she come from? Is she from American lines?
I've been looking for a good breeder here in Europe...in the end I found one in France who has beautiful dogs from German, Austrian and French long coated WWS lines, for work and show...
About the long coated...I may be mistaken, but I know that some breeders use to mix their GSD with long coated dogs, once in a while, to keep a good coat length , 'cause it tends to became shorter and shorter, if you breed just and only short coated subjects...
In Europe there are breeders specialized in altdeutsche shcaferhund, even if it isn't a recognized breed...Personally, I prefer them to the short coated ones for a lot of reasons, but this is entirely OT :D
Fede - was the kennel you found Trebons by any chance? I think their dogs are lovley!!!!
I am looking at the BBI for studs (since it is looking like I will be getting a female)....in two years should my puppy be healthy and whole I really want to breed her to a dog that has a SchH title or something along those lines. :) I love working dogs :D
cassiesmom
04-10-2007, 02:23 PM
Nicole, do you have more photos of your beautiful Shepherd? (I am always ready to see photos!)
Fede - was the kennel you found Trebons by any chance? I think their dogs are lovley!!!!
Actually, Trebons is on top of my list!:D But at the moment I think my puppy will come from the Manoir de la Roche Blanche (and Du Bois des Ternes...they are partner breeders, they own the same dogs...).
I also think Sutumer Grund produced very good subject till now...but they have a very few litters during the year...
I'm keeping tabs on their studs, anyway!
And also on X-Dream Amaroq (it’s owned by White Condor)…He was the father of a litter born on the 3rd of april, with Atena Ancilia (she’s beautiful too!)…It was the perfect match I was looking for, I really wanted one of their puppies, but it was just too soon…I wont be able to get my puppy until next February/march…:rolleyes:
Sumter Grund has amazing dogs, and actually I looked at Manoir de la Roche Blanche :p I love the european breeders :p. I actually have heard of White Condor too :p
lol, I know more kennels in europe than I do in America :rolleyes:
If you haven't done it yet, take a look at Ancilia too? ;)
lol! lovely! Beautiful dogs and thank you for pointing it out to me :p I usually end up having to use a translator to read alot of the foreign websites (I am brushing up on my french...slowly but surely) :p
You should really have a look at a few of the BBI studs...and this winter when I go to see my grandmother I am also going to visit some of the swiss breeders (we have family in the province of Valaisanne)....some of the swiss dogs are to DIE for....
You mean Berger Blanc Suisse International website? Done it!!!
I also have a list of my favourite dogs and bitches, based on show and work results (because if a dog is beautiful, but it’s not good for work, I think it shouldn’t be breed… I really don’t want this breed to have the same fate as some European German Shepherd lines, which are beautiful, yes, but not functional and have a nervous and unsteady temperament…)
To be honest, I don’t think I’ll train my dog for work, there are no training centres or professional trainers where I live, but it’s good to know the puppy has it in him! It’s a guarantee of good temperament. But I’m pretty sure I’ll train him for obedience!!! ;)
I can point you this, if you haven’t already seen it…there are other European studs:
http://www.whiteshepherd.info/introduction.htm
And a cool little bit from the Swiss - the Swiss breeding stock is amazing. The test the hec out of those dogs...from the time they are six months on they have to be tested at Zurch or Bern for all manner of things before they are allowed to be registered as breeding dogs. Because of this the BBS lines in Switzerland are very, very good...and I believe they have travelled all over so genetically these animals are also very sound...or at least no less sound than their German brethren. :)
I also believe that Swiss lines are precious, they are very strict about health, they check their breeding subject with parsimony and they keep a good level of functionality in their show lines ;) …
Anyway, a few time ago I had a talk with a breeder who told me that Swiss breeders recently cut off import of dogs from USA and Canada…you know, there in USA and in Canada you have been breeding with shepherds for 80 years, Canadian and American lines are quite valuable! :eek: The fact that Switzerland stopped import is not good at all, I believe! If you also think that there are relatively few breeding subject here in Europe, this is going to seriously reduce the genetic variety of Swiss lines, and that’s a shame!:(
I actually heard something recently...some people were raising a fuss over a dog that they registered...so I am not 100% sure that they cut off the importing.
I remember reading someone where that some people got upset because they registered a white dog from the states that was out of colored parents. I think that is kind of silly...does it really matter as long as they add to the breed?