UK Staffie Owners

[staffilover]

over here we have alot of dog snobs namely staffie owners saying things like "its the pitbulls that give our dogs a bad name" grrr
little do they realise that their dogs are infact "pitbulls"
and if they lived in certain parts of the world where B.S.L is rife their
pocket pitties would be banned or killed.
i belong to a staffie site and most on there hadnt even heard of B.S.L
and didnt realise that in the u.s in the states where they have B.S.L
staffies are banned..one lady i speak to is from australia and didnt know that they had B.S.L there...she owns a staffie and where she comes from they are trying to ban staffies...i've wrote alot of posts on there about B.S.L and how it affects all bully breeds and they are shocked and now get involved with trying to help these are 2 of the vids i put on there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtQJdhpsTCU denver ban {brill vid}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Su4SicEDro pitbull media {sad}

[eb4i]

Yeah... there's talk around here of banning Rotties.

I wonder how they're gonna prove my dog is a Rottie.

"Why no, Council Member Dingus, this isn't a Rottweiler... its a Smooth Tibetan Mastiff. In fact, I'm offended that you can't tell the difference! Good DAY Sir!"

[staffilover]

lmao:D

[Rainbow]

Ummm ok ....I HAVE to ask...whats B.S.L?

[borzoimom]

Okay- I have no clue about the Uk but I can tell you the problems here in the US with how "pitts" are viewed...
Lets start at the top- I do not fault the dog breed, I do not fault alllllllllll the owners- what I do fault is the "Breed club".. The reason is that they have yet to set a standard, like the others do, of what is acceptable ownership recognized by the breed..
EXAMPLE.. if you want to get a sighthound- most of them- they will tell you that they can not be trusted in a unfenced area as this dog travels very fast out of ear shot--- they tell you may not be reliable with cats or small pets as the desire to chase is so strong they will even chase a white plastic bag- .. they tell you that may not be good with small children because they have little body fat on them to protect joints that a falling child feels like you hitting your funny bone.. etc etc etc etc..
The problem with this " pitt " type breeds is that you can not get this dog off an attack- they do not feel pain in the way expected other breeds to respond. This is also the reason they are NOT used in police work because the bite is not able to be controlled.
NOT ONCE- has the clubs set if you have this breed you need- * early socializing- , understand the dog will be dog aggressive, and finally- wont give up in a fight until their last breath...
**** are you angry yet??? you should be! Any other breed you are told like the beagle- this dog will follow its nose- and can get lost, etc.. BUT NOT these dogs.. WHY- THE CLUBS are an ostrich in the sand- if they ignore it goes away- but the fact is- in all the hearings I have been to in breed banning- NOT ONCE has a club rep showed up to stop it.. Its like " if I do not see it - it doesnt exist- "... oh yes it does!
Some of you know this true story- but here we go.. I have a friend that was a highly skilled trainer- . She wanted to prove that an ( American staff in this case) could be a perfect trained etc dog .. She quickly went through to CDX level on this dog, and even wanted the dog to join my therapy group at the hospital ( I even vouched for the dog- but people were afraid of the breed so she was turned down..) This dog was a spayed bitch, and a total sweetheart! Well one day she was working out in the yard. She lives in town so the dog is use to people walking by the house etc on a normal basis- totally calm in the yard. This one day- the lady comes by with also a spayed female and the dog goes over the fence out of no where- attacks the dog, then as the lady tries to get the dog off her dog attacks her!!!! NEVER NEVER EVER EVER A SIGN OF AGGRESSION IN THIS DOG BEFORE!!!! NOT A SINGLE SIGN!
To make a long story short- my friend was arrested for endangerment, dog running at large, then the woman had a heart attack and the charges mounted! Meanwhile- we all thought it was a medical issue with the dog and insisted on a necropsy on the dog etc- IT SHOWED NOTHING!!! NOT A BRAIN SHUNT- NOTHING!!!
My friend lost her job- ( in jail - cant go to work and criminal charges) lost her house- couldnt work to pay the mortage, AND SUED UP THE WAAAZOO by the lawyers because of the breed!!!

I would not own a "pitt" type. To me - they are not worth the liability- or the cost in insurance, and most companies will NOT insure them.. I can insure in liability alllllllll 4 of my dogs for half the price of one pitt type-... Its not worth the financial risk to my family, the heart break, or losing my whole life- for ANYTHING..

The club needs to get itsself together- that is where the fault lies in my mind.. The CLUB needs to say- " a good owner does this- leashed in public, an anti jump harness in a fence, we endorse early training, not running at large, and obedience titles.. IF NOTHING ELSE it means we the club of which ever endorse this AS PROPER BREED OWNERSHIP.. GET THEIR heads out of the sand and wake up...

It makes me mad as a Borzoi owner, called to come testifiy to help stop bans ( cause at some point it will just add another breed), as someone that shows, competes, a judge, - to end up having to defend this when the breed CLUB turns it head like a ostrich in the sand.. EITHER FACE the problem of what you endorse or make a bigger mess.

[staffilover]

Ummm ok ....I HAVE to ask...whats B.S.L?

it stands for breed specific legislation...
if your dog is banned under breed specific legislation thats it... its killed
whether or not it has attacked or not.
thousands of loving responsable owners have had there dogs took away and
"humanely" killed.

[eb4i]

I tell ya... The litegeousness of the US scares the heck outa me. Poor woman lost her HOME over a dog fight? OMG!

I agree with your points borzoimom... but I also think that the Staffie/Pittie community IS pulling it together. Could they push harder? Everyone could push harder.

Anywho... if they ban Rotties out here they're gonna have a hell of a fight trying to get mine. And if worse comes to worst I have friends with farms where he could live in peace for the few yaers left to him.

Then I'd get a Cane Corso... Or some thing that looked REALLY mean. Heh. Just to *&^@ with 'em.

[PomeranianCrazy]

Okay- I have no clue about the Uk but I can tell you the problems here in the US with how "pitts" are viewed...
Lets start at the top- I do not fault the dog breed, I do not fault alllllllllll the owners- what I do fault is the "Breed club".. The reason is that they have yet to set a standard, like the others do, of what is acceptable ownership recognized by the breed..
EXAMPLE.. if you want to get a sighthound- most of them- they will tell you that they can not be trusted in a unfenced area as this dog travels very fast out of ear shot--- they tell you may not be reliable with cats or small pets as the desire to chase is so strong they will even chase a white plastic bag- .. they tell you that may not be good with small children because they have little body fat on them to protect joints that a falling child feels like you hitting your funny bone.. etc etc etc etc..
The problem with this " pitt " type breeds is that you can not get this dog off an attack- they do not feel pain in the way expected other breeds to respond. This is also the reason they are NOT used in police work because the bite is not able to be controlled.
NOT ONCE- has the clubs set if you have this breed you need- * early socializing- , understand the dog will be dog aggressive, and finally- wont give up in a fight until their last breath...
**** are you angry yet??? you should be! Any other breed you are told like the beagle- this dog will follow its nose- and can get lost, etc.. BUT NOT these dogs.. WHY- THE CLUBS are an ostrich in the sand- if they ignore it goes away- but the fact is- in all the hearings I have been to in breed banning- NOT ONCE has a club rep showed up to stop it.. Its like " if I do not see it - it doesnt exist- "... oh yes it does!
Some of you know this true story- but here we go.. I have a friend that was a highly skilled trainer- . She wanted to prove that an ( American staff in this case) could be a perfect trained etc dog .. She quickly went through to CDX level on this dog, and even wanted the dog to join my therapy group at the hospital ( I even vouched for the dog- but people were afraid of the breed so she was turned down..) This dog was a spayed bitch, and a total sweetheart! Well one day she was working out in the yard. She lives in town so the dog is use to people walking by the house etc on a normal basis- totally calm in the yard. This one day- the lady comes by with also a spayed female and the dog goes over the fence out of no where- attacks the dog, then as the lady tries to get the dog off her dog attacks her!!!! NEVER NEVER EVER EVER A SIGN OF AGGRESSION IN THIS DOG BEFORE!!!! NOT A SINGLE SIGN!
To make a long story short- my friend was arrested for endangerment, dog running at large, then the woman had a heart attack and the charges mounted! Meanwhile- we all thought it was a medical issue with the dog and insisted on a necropsy on the dog etc- IT SHOWED NOTHING!!! NOT A BRAIN SHUNT- NOTHING!!!
My friend lost her job- ( in jail - cant go to work and criminal charges) lost her house- couldnt work to pay the mortage, AND SUED UP THE WAAAZOO by the lawyers because of the breed!!!

I would not own a "pitt" type. To me - they are not worth the liability- or the cost in insurance, and most companies will NOT insure them.. I can insure in liability alllllllll 4 of my dogs for half the price of one pitt type-... Its not worth the financial risk to my family, the heart break, or losing my whole life- for ANYTHING..

The club needs to get itsself together- that is where the fault lies in my mind.. The CLUB needs to say- " a good owner does this- leashed in public, an anti jump harness in a fence, we endorse early training, not running at large, and obedience titles.. IF NOTHING ELSE it means we the club of which ever endorse this AS PROPER BREED OWNERSHIP.. GET THEIR heads out of the sand and wake up...

It makes me mad as a Borzoi owner, called to come testifiy to help stop bans ( cause at some point it will just add another breed), as someone that shows, competes, a judge, - to end up having to defend this when the breed CLUB turns it head like a ostrich in the sand.. EITHER FACE the problem of what you endorse or make a bigger mess.
Oh man this is terrible! I love the pit breeds but don't see the reason to loss you life just because a club doesn't share correct and informational information to pit owners! Its just terrible!

[staffilover]

Okay- I have no clue about the Uk but I can tell you the problems here in the US with how "pitts" are viewed...
Lets start at the top- I do not fault the dog breed, I do not fault alllllllllll the owners- what I do fault is the "Breed club".. The reason is that they have yet to set a standard, like the others do, of what is acceptable ownership recognized by the breed..
EXAMPLE.. if you want to get a sighthound- most of them- they will tell you that they can not be trusted in a unfenced area as this dog travels very fast out of ear shot--- they tell you may not be reliable with cats or small pets as the desire to chase is so strong they will even chase a white plastic bag- .. they tell you that may not be good with small children because they have little body fat on them to protect joints that a falling child feels like you hitting your funny bone.. etc etc etc etc..
The problem with this " pitt " type breeds is that you can not get this dog off an attack- they do not feel pain in the way expected other breeds to respond. This is also the reason they are NOT used in police work because the bite is not able to be controlled.
NOT ONCE- has the clubs set if you have this breed you need- * early socializing- , understand the dog will be dog aggressive, and finally- wont give up in a fight until their last breath...
**** are you angry yet??? you should be! Any other breed you are told like the beagle- this dog will follow its nose- and can get lost, etc.. BUT NOT these dogs.. WHY- THE CLUBS are an ostrich in the sand- if they ignore it goes away- but the fact is- in all the hearings I have been to in breed banning- NOT ONCE has a club rep showed up to stop it.. Its like " if I do not see it - it doesnt exist- "... oh yes it does!
Some of you know this true story- but here we go.. I have a friend that was a highly skilled trainer- . She wanted to prove that an ( American staff in this case) could be a perfect trained etc dog .. She quickly went through to CDX level on this dog, and even wanted the dog to join my therapy group at the hospital ( I even vouched for the dog- but people were afraid of the breed so she was turned down..) This dog was a spayed bitch, and a total sweetheart! Well one day she was working out in the yard. She lives in town so the dog is use to people walking by the house etc on a normal basis- totally calm in the yard. This one day- the lady comes by with also a spayed female and the dog goes over the fence out of no where- attacks the dog, then as the lady tries to get the dog off her dog attacks her!!!! NEVER NEVER EVER EVER A SIGN OF AGGRESSION IN THIS DOG BEFORE!!!! NOT A SINGLE SIGN!
To make a long story short- my friend was arrested for endangerment, dog running at large, then the woman had a heart attack and the charges mounted! Meanwhile- we all thought it was a medical issue with the dog and insisted on a necropsy on the dog etc- IT SHOWED NOTHING!!! NOT A BRAIN SHUNT- NOTHING!!!
My friend lost her job- ( in jail - cant go to work and criminal charges) lost her house- couldnt work to pay the mortage, AND SUED UP THE WAAAZOO by the lawyers because of the breed!!!

I would not own a "pitt" type. To me - they are not worth the liability- or the cost in insurance, and most companies will NOT insure them.. I can insure in liability alllllllll 4 of my dogs for half the price of one pitt type-... Its not worth the financial risk to my family, the heart break, or losing my whole life- for ANYTHING..

The club needs to get itsself together- that is where the fault lies in my mind.. The CLUB needs to say- " a good owner does this- leashed in public, an anti jump harness in a fence, we endorse early training, not running at large, and obedience titles.. IF NOTHING ELSE it means we the club of which ever endorse this AS PROPER BREED OWNERSHIP.. GET THEIR heads out of the sand and wake up...

It makes me mad as a Borzoi owner, called to come testifiy to help stop bans ( cause at some point it will just add another breed), as someone that shows, competes, a judge, - to end up having to defend this when the breed CLUB turns it head like a ostrich in the sand.. EITHER FACE the problem of what you endorse or make a bigger mess.

im sorry that you wouldnt consider "this" pit type breed you dont know what you're missing..
any breed of dog that starts to fight properly will not let go...
i had 2 mongrels they started to fight and they could not be parted for love nor money.....
a dog attacked my staff a couple of years ago, my dog went for it....and the fight was stopped quite easily....
oh and they are used in police work...and search & rescue work....and as dogs for the handicapped..and as therapy dogs..they also do very well in obedience trials too....
start to punish the monsters that make this breed the most mistreated & misunderstood breed ......temp tests - apbts.amstaffs.staffies & english bulls rate better than that lovable popular choice for families the golden retriver or the border collie....

[borzoimom]

I tell ya... The litegeousness of the US scares the heck outa me. Poor woman lost her HOME over a dog fight? OMG!

I agree with your points borzoimom... but I also think that the Staffie/Pittie community IS pulling it together. Could they push harder? Everyone could push harder.

Anywho... if they ban Rotties out here they're gonna have a hell of a fight trying to get mine. And if worse comes to worst I have friends with farms where he could live in peace for the few yaers left to him.

Then I'd get a Cane Corso... Or some thing that looked REALLY mean. Heh. Just to *&^@ with 'em.
They need to push harder to protect the breed I agree.. At least with a Rotti you can call off a bite as you well know- that is what people can work with for sure! And- here- the Rotti club backs up what they consider proper ownership- .. the only breed here banned in this county is "pitt types".. not shepherds etc.

[borzoimom]

im sorry that you wouldnt consider "this" pit type breed you dont know what you're missing..
any breed of dog that starts to fight properly will not let go...
i had 2 mongrels they started to fight and they could not be parted for love nor money.....
a dog attacked my staff a couple of years ago, my dog went for it....and the fight was stopped quite easily....
oh and they are used in police work...and search & rescue work....and as dogs for the handicapped..and as therapy dogs..they also do very well in obedience trials too....
start to punish the monsters that make this breed the most mistreated & misunderstood breed ......temp tests - apbts.amstaffs.staffies & english bulls rate better than that lovable popular choice for families the golden retriver or the border collie....
Its not WORTH the liability to insure- if you can get insurance, and without the " breed club" backing you up- you will loose alot.. its not worth it to me with 166 other breeds recognized by the AKC and countless other rare breeds... ITS NOT WORTH it to me.. If you have the money- you pay for it but not when so many other breeds are in shelters that the dog would be a joy without the liability BY LAW that " pitt" breeds entail.. Here - the sky is the limit in insurance claims if you have one of these attacks- you will loose your whole life- for the rest of your life, paying for it.. Not worth it..

[Shankly]

Okay- I have no clue about the Uk but I can tell you the problems here in the US with how "pitts" are viewed...
Lets start at the top- I do not fault the dog breed, I do not fault alllllllllll the owners- what I do fault is the "Breed club".. The reason is that they have yet to set a standard, like the others do, of what is acceptable ownership recognized by the breed..
EXAMPLE.. if you want to get a sighthound- most of them- they will tell you that they can not be trusted in a unfenced area as this dog travels very fast out of ear shot--- they tell you may not be reliable with cats or small pets as the desire to chase is so strong they will even chase a white plastic bag- .. they tell you that may not be good with small children because they have little body fat on them to protect joints that a falling child feels like you hitting your funny bone.. etc etc etc etc..
The problem with this " pitt " type breeds is that you can not get this dog off an attack- they do not feel pain in the way expected other breeds to respond. This is also the reason they are NOT used in police work because the bite is not able to be controlled.
NOT ONCE- has the clubs set if you have this breed you need- * early socializing- , understand the dog will be dog aggressive, and finally- wont give up in a fight until their last breath...
**** are you angry yet??? you should be! Any other breed you are told like the beagle- this dog will follow its nose- and can get lost, etc.. BUT NOT these dogs.. WHY- THE CLUBS are an ostrich in the sand- if they ignore it goes away- but the fact is- in all the hearings I have been to in breed banning- NOT ONCE has a club rep showed up to stop it.. Its like " if I do not see it - it doesnt exist- "... oh yes it does!
Some of you know this true story- but here we go.. I have a friend that was a highly skilled trainer- . She wanted to prove that an ( American staff in this case) could be a perfect trained etc dog .. She quickly went through to CDX level on this dog, and even wanted the dog to join my therapy group at the hospital ( I even vouched for the dog- but people were afraid of the breed so she was turned down..) This dog was a spayed bitch, and a total sweetheart! Well one day she was working out in the yard. She lives in town so the dog is use to people walking by the house etc on a normal basis- totally calm in the yard. This one day- the lady comes by with also a spayed female and the dog goes over the fence out of no where- attacks the dog, then as the lady tries to get the dog off her dog attacks her!!!! NEVER NEVER EVER EVER A SIGN OF AGGRESSION IN THIS DOG BEFORE!!!! NOT A SINGLE SIGN!
To make a long story short- my friend was arrested for endangerment, dog running at large, then the woman had a heart attack and the charges mounted! Meanwhile- we all thought it was a medical issue with the dog and insisted on a necropsy on the dog etc- IT SHOWED NOTHING!!! NOT A BRAIN SHUNT- NOTHING!!!
My friend lost her job- ( in jail - cant go to work and criminal charges) lost her house- couldnt work to pay the mortage, AND SUED UP THE WAAAZOO by the lawyers because of the breed!!!

I would not own a "pitt" type. To me - they are not worth the liability- or the cost in insurance, and most companies will NOT insure them.. I can insure in liability alllllllll 4 of my dogs for half the price of one pitt type-... Its not worth the financial risk to my family, the heart break, or losing my whole life- for ANYTHING..

The club needs to get itsself together- that is where the fault lies in my mind.. The CLUB needs to say- " a good owner does this- leashed in public, an anti jump harness in a fence, we endorse early training, not running at large, and obedience titles.. IF NOTHING ELSE it means we the club of which ever endorse this AS PROPER BREED OWNERSHIP.. GET THEIR heads out of the sand and wake up...

It makes me mad as a Borzoi owner, called to come testifiy to help stop bans ( cause at some point it will just add another breed), as someone that shows, competes, a judge, - to end up having to defend this when the breed CLUB turns it head like a ostrich in the sand.. EITHER FACE the problem of what you endorse or make a bigger mess.


I don't know about America but the British Kennel club in breed standards do mention that a Staffie needs early socialisation with other dogs and I made sure my dog did have early socialisation. Every morning he runs around (off leash) in the local park with two golden retrievers, two spaniels and a border collie.
While I realise you are not attacking Pitt types with the story about your friend as you are just mentioning something that you know about, that really could of been any dog that just attacked for no reason. Any dog can cause damage to a human or other dog. Was it not a labrador that ripped off the womens face in France which made her need the worlds first face transplant?
What the authorities need to do is punish all owners the same for any dog attack and not punish owners with pitt types more then owners with Border Collies for example (which are classed as dangerous dogs in Italy because of the amount of times they bite people)

[eb4i]

At least with a Rotti you can call off a bite as you well know-

DUDE! What makes you think you can't condition an amstaff/pitbull whatever to release or break off? It's only a matter of behaviour conditioning. Am I reading your post the wrong way? I've been known to do that.

Borzoimom, if you can condition a male Rotty to have his package handled by a stranger in the show ring without moving, surely you can condition an Amstaff to release. Of course you could.

[eb4i]

Was it not a labrador that ripped off the womens face in France which made her need the worlds first face transplant?
What the authorities need to do is punish all owners the same for any dog attack and not punish owners with pitt types more then owners with Border Collies for example (which are classed as dangerous dogs in Italy because of the amount of times they bite people)

BINGO!

Well spoken!

[borzoimom]

I don't know about America but the British Kennel club in breed standards do mention that a Staffie needs early socialisation with other dogs and I made sure my dog did have early socialisation. Every morning he runs around (off leash) in the local park with two golden retrievers, two spaniels and a border collie.
While I realise you are not attacking Pitt types with the story about your friend as you are just mentioning something that you know about, that really could of been any dog that just attacked for no reason. Any dog can cause damage to a human or other dog. Was it not a labrador that ripped off the womens face in France which made her need the worlds first face transplant?
What the authorities need to do is punish all owners the same for any dog attack and not punish owners with pitt types more then owners with Border Collies for example (which are classed as dangerous dogs in Italy because of the amount of times they bite people)
That was our point exactly at the time that a dog attack should be handled the same regardless of breed- the long term problem is the insurance companies and lawyers that use the BSL in other places to " show" a more serious attack etc- and the there isn't a ceiling limits on financial liability.. Since then most of the area has a ban ..And also now, if you have a ban even in a local county, insurance is almost impossible to get without costing an arm and a leg..
Maybe I am just one of those that carries insurance on my dogs. I also have health insurance etc.. I am not sure how it would have turned out if the dog had only attacked the dog. The defense lawyers said it was neglagence on the part of the lady to be bitten by " putting the dog in defense of itself.." etc. The problem was- the witness's all said the dog never appeared to be frightened by the lady.. And I will say it sure was a eye opener. While I live on 18 acres, and do not need a "dog park"- after this I would not go as all 4 of mine will chase something small and running. Certain breeds have certain instinct traits- mine is to chase- "pitt" types are to fight. I know they are working on breeding to improve the breed to improve the reputation, but even then- this will take time. But it also takes dedication on the part of the owners to " keep their dogs behavior out of the papers.." I remember when I first started in shepherds- it had long been awful statements of " they will turn on their owners" all because the first real increase in population in the US came from the dogs being used for military/ police. The shepherds were not used in police work because of " viciousness" but rather ABILITY to work as a all round dog from tracking to protection etc.. Cesar Millan has done more to help the " pitt" types than anyone- showing how much dedication and training it takes to have this breed.
Each breed has requirements of responsible ownership. Giant breeds need training early before the size takes over etc.. And to be totally honest here- some of the nastiest dogs I have ever met were TOYS! They get a Neopolian complex early as they are allowed to get on the couch in your face- believing they really are that big, constantly carried in a risen " status" in the dogs mind etc. However- there is a big difference from a chihuahua bite, and a dane for example. But a bite is a bite.. And as any k-9 officer will tell you- it only takes 7 pounds of pressure to break your forearm- and a dog even chews with twice their body weight in pressure. The law defines a bite as broken skin or broken bones- alot easier for a medium to larger dog to do.

[eb4i]

And as any k-9 officer will tell you- it only takes 7 pounds of pressure to break your forearm- and a dog even chews with twice their body weight in pressure. The law defines a bite as broken skin or broken bones- alot easier for a medium to larger dog to do.

I worked as a an Animal Control Officer for a while. Nastiest bite I ever got was from a toy poodle mix. Broke two fingers he did. Quick little bugger! lol.

Well... nastiest bite I ever got working Animal Control that is. There was another bite I got whilst training a GSD that was... uncomfortable. That was MY fault tho'... so I guess it doesn't count.

Have you noted the way I veer off topic? I must learn to focus!

[borzoimom]

Topics like this have many facets to consider- its not cut and dried. Its like a deck of cards- different ones but they make the whole.. ( how is that for a veer?? lol.. but you get the point..)

[Ceph]

I dont like or agree with B.S.L. I have had my first experience with the apartment that I am moving into next semester...it is one of the big reasons I decided to import my dog...because if it says BBS on the paperwork then they cant tell me it is a GSD and say I cant keep the dog with me.

I personally dont have a problem with staffies or pitties...I think they are what you make them. If I owned one (and I may rescue a mix in the future) then I would make sure it was socialized beyond belief...but that is not any different than any other dog I would own....Jay was socialized like woah and as a result we have a very happy loving-of-everything dog...and my BBS puppy will be just as socialized.

I think it is kind of stupid that Staffie owners are saying that pitties are giving their dogs a bad name...they're not that different...and it doesnt matter if the dog is a GSD, a pittie, rottie, or Dobe...(these are four of the seven or so breeds that are not allowed in my apartment)...these breeds have been given a bad name because some owners are not repsonsible or not informed...and it kind of screws over the owners who are.

[eb4i]

Topics like this have many facets to consider- its not cut and dried. Its like a deck of cards- different ones but they make the whole.. ( how is that for a veer?? lol.. but you get the point..)

When IS poker night here, anyway?

lawl!

[Shankly]

That was our point exactly at the time that a dog attack should be handled the same regardless of breed- the long term problem is the insurance companies and lawyers that use the BSL in other places to " show" a more serious attack etc- and the there isn't a ceiling limits on financial liability.. Since then most of the area has a ban ..And also now, if you have a ban even in a local county, insurance is almost impossible to get without costing an arm and a leg..
Maybe I am just one of those that carries insurance on my dogs. I also have health insurance etc.. I am not sure how it would have turned out if the dog had only attacked the dog. The defense lawyers said it was neglagence on the part of the lady to be bitten by " putting the dog in defense of itself.." etc. The problem was- the witness's all said the dog never appeared to be frightened by the lady.. And I will say it sure was a eye opener. While I live on 18 acres, and do not need a "dog park"- after this I would not go as all 4 of mine will chase something small and running. Certain breeds have certain instinct traits- mine is to chase- "pitt" types are to fight. I know they are working on breeding to improve the breed to improve the reputation, but even then- this will take time. But it also takes dedication on the part of the owners to " keep their dogs behavior out of the papers.." I remember when I first started in shepherds- it had long been awful statements of " they will turn on their owners" all because the first real increase in population in the US came from the dogs being used for military/ police. The shepherds were not used in police work because of " viciousness" but rather ABILITY to work as a all round dog from tracking to protection etc.. Cesar Millan has done more to help the " pitt" types than anyone- showing how much dedication and training it takes to have this breed.
Each breed has requirements of responsible ownership. Giant breeds need training early before the size takes over etc.. And to be totally honest here- some of the nastiest dogs I have ever met were TOYS! They get a Neopolian complex early as they are allowed to get on the couch in your face- believing they really are that big, constantly carried in a risen " status" in the dogs mind etc. However- there is a big difference from a chihuahua bite, and a dane for example. But a bite is a bite.. And as any k-9 officer will tell you- it only takes 7 pounds of pressure to break your forearm- and a dog even chews with twice their body weight in pressure. The law defines a bite as broken skin or broken bones- alot easier for a medium to larger dog to do.

I have health insurance for my dog which also covers me up to £1 million in liability insurance if he ever did attack anyone, thankfully the insurance company I am with charge the same for every pedigree dog so a Poodle costs the same as a staffie which costs the same as a lab. I know a lot of insurance companies in England do charge more depending what the dog is but it tends to be linked with health problems more then the chance of the dog attacking (for example a bulldog with all of its related health problems will cost more to insure then a staffie which is generally a healthy dog).

[Katlovesdogs]

i dont think well bred english staffies should be classed in the same leage as any 'pit bull' type dog (someone called them "pocket pitties!), i beleive they are very different indeed. Al you ever read about them is how good they are with children and how much they love people. whilst reading about pit bulls and american staffs is a different story. Just saying what i think thats all.

and i agree, dont think insurance companies raise their prices for an english staffy, but some refuse to insure larger mastiff breeds

[skunkstripe]

Borzoimom I am curious which Breed Club you are referring to in your long post (#5).

[staffilover]

i dont think well pred english staffies should be classed in the same leage as any 'pit bull' type dog (someone called them "pocket pitties!), i beleive they are very different indeed. Al you ever read about them is how good they are with children and how much they love people. whilst reading about pit bulls and american staffs is a different story. Just saying what i think thats all.

it was me that called them pocket pitties...cos thats what they are..
it makes me so angry when staffie owners in particular try to distance themselves from the pit thing...thats why i wrote this thread...
APBT..known for their intelligence & loyalty apbts make excellent, loving companians despite the UNFAIR press they recieve.
AMSTAFF..their natural temperament towards people is gentle & loving.
unfortunately some have been inproperly handled giving the amstaff a bad rap.loyal, intelligent, devoted does well with children {when socialized as pup} often does well with other pets.
staffie.

The Staffordshire Bull Terrier first came into existence in or around the seventeenth century. As bull baiting declined in popularity and dog fighting enjoyed a surge of interest, it became necessary to develop a dog which possessed a longer and more punishing head than the Bulldog and also to combine strength and agility. It is therefore believed that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier was derived from the fighting Bulldog of the day with some terrier blood introduced. This cross produced what was known as the Bull and Terrier or Pit Dog. These dogs were renowned for their courage and tenacity and despite their ferocity in the pit were excellent companions and good with children. In fact it was not unknown for an injured dog to be transported home in a pram with the baby!

[parker]

This is just my opinion but I dont like the term 'pit bull type', it is either a pit bull or not, a pit bull a staff a boxer a collie they aren't a type they are a breed. I can understand cross breeds being classed as pit bull types if they look like pit bulls but please why label every x breed with a large head a pit bull type it does infuriate me I am sorry.:(

English Staffies are related to the pit bull and american staffie but why judge a whole breed on the mistake of one of those breeds, why clump them together

[staffilover]

This is just my opinion but I dont like the term 'pit bull type', it is either a pit bull or not, a pit bull a staff a boxer a collie they aren't a type they are a breed. I can understand cross breeds being classed as pit bull types if they look like pit bulls but please why label every x breed with a large head a pit bull type it does infuriate me I am sorry.:(

English Staffies are related to the pit bull and american staffie but why judge a whole breed on the mistake of one of those breeds, why clump them together
i agree in part with what you're saying its either pit or not...i dont like the term "pit bull type" either...you're from britain i see so you've probebly seen the news tonight about that little girl killed in liverpool by a "pitbull type"
the thing is you get some idiots over here and they think if they cross a rotty with a staff it makes a pitbull..its these bad owners that should be punished not the breed..we have to stop punishing the wrong end of the lead...
i was once offered £500 to mate my staff with a rotty the lad thinking it would make a pitbull i refused and told him how to go away....

[Katlovesdogs]

Yes, staffilover, there are a lot of idiots over here that breed dogs to look like pit bulls (i know pit bull is a type but u know what i mean) and own very large stafy mixes and 'pit them'. However, i do think people have the right to differentiate themselves from these yobs. The staffy you see in the show ring is sooo different from the dogs you see in the US and in parts of the uk. They are for one much smaller, with shorter legs and shorter muzzels, they have been bred for the show ring and to be loving pets, not to fight, therefor i would say they are not 'pit dogs', they are a cross between the bulldog and a terrier from years ago which has changed a lot over the centuries and is no longer bred for its fighting capabilities.

Ow yes and i believe the horrendous incident with the little girl did infact involve a pit bull, not a regular staffy, if it was a staffy they would have said staffy, but it was a pit bull and they have to say 'type' coz its not a breed.

[staffilover]

Ow yes and i believe the horrendous incident with the little girl did infact involve a pit bull, not a regular staffy, if it was a staffy they would have said staffy, but it was a pit bull and they have to say 'type' coz its not a breed.
you're right...pitbull is not a breed its a term used to group three breeds..these are ....american pitbull terrier..staffordshire bull terrier...
american staffordshire terrier.......{pitbulls}

that was the description on the news "PITBULL TYPE"
i didnt say it was a staffie...

pitbull type to me means a cross bred dog that looks similar to an apbt
or similar to a staffie or amstaff......
but its...
not a staffie nor american pitbull nor american staff...have you ever seen a
labrador crossed with a staff hmmm that could be identified as a pitbull "TYPE".....
or a boxer crossed with a labrador...now you really would think that was a "pitbull type"
but its not a "pitbull" at all....thats where the problem lies..pitbull sells papers and makes headlines....a lab x with a boxer dosnt..

look at the thread identity problem....

[lovingpaws]

It's about more than " is it a pit is it a staffie" or the bites..... It's about We All Need To Be Involved (& Aware) against BSL. Your dog could be next.

Rufus the colored bull terrier and 2006 Westminster Winner is BANNED is some cities.:angrysmiley:

This is a good site that list breeds banned in many countries.
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/Locations/BSLListings.htm

Can you pick the pit bull - be honest I love pitties, Staffies, (all breeds) but it took me 3 trys :o
http://www.nokillnow.com/PitbullFindIT.html


Here are Breeds already banned in the United States. Just look at some of them :mad:

American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, bull terrier — Monticello, Centerville, Alburnett and Hiawatha, Iowa; Grandview, Mo.; North Little Rock, Ark.; two cities in Kentucky and Washington; Lincoln, N.D. Akita — Ulyssas, Kan. Alaskan malamutes — Fairfield, Iowa. American bulldog — North Little Rock, Ark.; Aurora, Colo.; Akron, Ohio. Belgian malinois — Fairfield, Iowa. Boerboels — Fairfield, Iowa. Cane Corso — Aurora, Colo. Chow chow — Travelers Rest, S.C.; Newport, R.I.; Lynnville, Tenn. Doberman pinscher — Fairfield, Iowa; Sisston, S.D.; Westfield, Ill; Travelers Rest, S.C.; Lynnville, Tenn.; Buffalo Center, Iowa. Dogo Argentino — Aurora, Colo. English mastiffs — Yale, Iowa. Fila Brasileiro (also known as the Fila and Brazilian mastiff) — Aurora, Colo. German shepherd — Fairfield, Iowa; Lynnville, Tenn. Great Dane — Fairfield, Iowa. Irish wolfhound — Fairfield, Iowa. Mastiffs — Fairfield, Iowa. Malamutes — Fairfield, Iowa. Presa Mallorquin (also known as the Ca de Bou) — Aurora, Colo. Presa Canario — Lanett, Ala.; Aurora, Colo. Rottweiler — North Little Rock, Ark.; Buffalo Grove, Ill.; Fairfield, Conrad, Lake Mills and Lockridge, Iowa; Walkerton, Ind.; Inman, Kan.; Carl Junction and Salisbury, Mo.; Binghamton, N.Y.; Velva, N.D.; Pawtuckett, R.I.; Travelers Rest, S.C.; Lynnville, Tenn.; Smithville, Utah; Neah Bay, Wash.; Buffalo Center, Iowa. Scottish deerhound — Fairfield, Iowa. Shar pei — Smithfield, Utah. Siberian huskies — Fairfield, Iowa. Tosa Inu — Aurora, Colo., and the wolf-hybrid.
If your dog weighs more than 100 pounds, he may be affected by size restrictions. For example, in Fairfield, Iowa, the following are considered restricted breeds: Akbash, Anatolian shepherd, Alapaha blue blood bulldog, Borzoi, bull mastiff, Dogue de Bordeauxs, Estrela mountain dog, Great Pyrenees, Italian mastiff, Komondor, Kangal dog, Kuvasz, Leonberger, Neopolitan mastiff, Newfoundland, Otterhound, St. Bernard and the Spanish mastiff.

from: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640199376,00.html (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640199376,00.html)

[GreyhoundGirl]

That first vid was really good!!!

[golden&hovawart]

BSL exist in many countries,in Europe,Mostly Fr,SP.and Germany.
They have put many bully breed in it.

[GreyhoundGirl]

Can you pick the pit bull?
http://www.nokillnow.com/PitbullFindIT.html




Wow... I'm now a big breed person, but it took me 14 tries!!! Then I gave up and went through the list clicking every one....:o

[Borzoi mad]

I have health insurance for my dog which also covers me up to £1 million in liability insurance if he ever did attack anyone, thankfully the insurance company I am with charge the same for every pedigree dog so a Poodle costs the same as a staffie which costs the same as a lab. I know a lot of insurance companies in England do charge more depending what the dog is but it tends to be linked with health problems more then the chance of the dog attacking (for example a bulldog with all of its related health problems will cost more to insure then a staffie which is generally a healthy dog).



This is interesting to me sorry I am going slightly off topic but can I ask which Insurance Company you are with who don't differentiate between breeds, the reason I ask is that I am a member of another forum and we have been getting quotes from various companies . Would be interesting to add your company to our list of quotes.:cheers:

[lovingpaws]

Pitbull Heros:band:
Therepy dogs, Search & Rescue, Canine officers and More. Read the whole story - link below:proof:

- ..Pit Bulls are widely used as therapy dogs, even today. Because of their high pain threshold and stable temperament, they do not bite or snap when accidentally bumped by a wheelchair or walker:applaud:

- ...Alaska's first hearing dog was a Pit Bull named RCA (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/rca.html). The Chako Rescue Association for the American Pit Bull Terrier has a therapy dog program that exclusively uses Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls also excel at search-and-rescue (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/sarpits.html). This breed is one of the most loving and loyal breeds that exist today....:cheers:

- ... He is now one of his best canine officers (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/popsicle.html). This story was covered by People Magazine. If any of these wonderful dogs were unfortunate enough to find themselves at an animal shelter with an anti-Pit Bull policy, they would be euthanized, purely based on their breed....:coolsmiley:

http://www.nokillnow.com/PitbullsLetter2Peta.htm

[golden&hovawart]

this is a very interesting article on BSL:
http://dogs.about.com/cs/breedprofiles/a/apbt_bsl.htm

[lovingpaws]

this is a very interesting article on BSL:
http://dogs.about.com/cs/breedprofiles/a/apbt_bsl.htm


Great article. It's owners that do need to be held responsible.

People:mad: using Dogs as Weapons. That's what it comes down to.

As far as dog attacks, *hit happens. I don't take it lightly, but all kinds of dogs attack. I volunteered at a shelter 20 hours a week, about 1/3 of dogs were pit mixes. After 1 year my first bite came to the face from a dachshund. I walked, trained & loved the dogs.

[staffilover]

Can you pick the pit bull?
http://www.nokillnow.com/PitbullFindIT.html




Wow... I'm now a big breed person, but it took me 14 tries!!! Then I gave up and went through the list clicking every one....:o

yay....

:D got it first time

[Shankly]

This is interesting to me sorry I am going slightly off topic but can I ask which Insurance Company you are with who don't differentiate between breeds, the reason I ask is that I am a member of another forum and we have been getting quotes from various companies . Would be interesting to add your company to our list of quotes.:cheers:

It is actually with Argos, seen as though staffs do not have many health problems i thought i would use it. There are three levels to it silver, gold and platinum. I have never claimed so I don't know how easy (or hard) it would be to claim should I have to.

[Borzoi mad]

It is actually with Argos, seen as though staffs do not have many health problems i thought i would use it. There are three levels to it silver, gold and platinum. I have never claimed so I don't know how easy (or hard) it would be to claim should I have to.


Thanks for that Shankly. I shall check on it and see what you get at each level.

If as you say they don't charge more for staffies, may be of interest to staffie owners on the other forum. Thanks again.:cheers:

[barnstroller]

i belong to a staffie site ..

Whats site please?.........


Also look at my post and see if you can advise on my problem as need help with male and female.

[SophieStaffy]

BSL is yet another ridiculous law that is never going to make any difference when it comes to dog bites. When I was growing up in FL, there was a big stink about a kid being attacked by a "pit bull." It turns out the dog in question was actually an Akita! The newspapers had misprinted the dog's breed on purpose. How many times has that occured, I wonder?

[Roxy n Marlee]

Yeah... there's talk around here of banning Rotties.

I wonder how they're gonna prove my dog is a Rottie.

"Why no, Council Member Dingus, this isn't a Rottweiler... its a Smooth Tibetan Mastiff. In fact, I'm offended that you can't tell the difference! Good DAY Sir!"

I had a women cross the street from me asking if my dogs where Rotties, I said no they are staffies!

Gives you an idea of the English and the dangerous dogs *rolls eyes*

I think it is appalling that most snob staffies owners point the finger at the pit, as they came from a English Staffie!

Thats why staffies today are a lot smaller.

[staffilover]

[quote=Roxy n Marlee;124578]I had a women cross the street from me asking if my dogs where Rotties, I said no they are staffies!

:ohno-smiley02::ohno-smiley02::ohno-smiley02:

[Roxy n Marlee]

Also todays staffords are a lot samller, we seem to have shrunk them to avoid the stero typing...

[saluki]

As far as im concerned, you dont get a bad dog you get a bad owner!! I dont blame these dogs at all.:eek:

[Roxy n Marlee]

They need to push harder to protect the breed I agree.. At least with a Rotti you can call off a bite as you well know- that is what people can work with for sure! And- here- the Rotti club backs up what they consider proper ownership- .. the only breed here banned in this county is "pitt types".. not shepherds etc.


Over here it took a few blows of a hammer to two rotties head for it to realese the a baby :(

[laura]

Hi im a staffy owner and i love pitbulls if they were legal here in england i would have one there's no doubt about that and i have a young son of nearly 3 and i wouldn't worry in the slightest. Its not the dogs fault if it lands in the hands off stupid cruel people. I dont agree with pits being illegal here its a disgrace. I get very angry over things like this.

[End BSL]

I cannot stand Bull Breed owners who against Pit Bulls, or any dog owner too be honest, but its worse when Bull breed owners dis like them been as our breeds are under the same threat.

[trudan]

Hiya, we own 2 staffies and they are our babies, both as soft as muck and any talk of banning them really gets our back up. Unfortunately we dont know what b.s.l stands for so could you enlighten us please. Sorry for bein nieve...:o:confused:

[skunkstripe]

BSL = "Breed specific legislation" - laws which target dogs by their breed/

[Katlovesdogs]

Hiya, we own 2 staffies and they are our babies, both as soft as muck and any talk of banning them really gets our back up. Unfortunately we dont know what b.s.l stands for so could you enlighten us please. Sorry for bein nieve...:o:confused:

dont worry there are no plans to ban staffies in the uk!

[lilpantz]

Another great article on the denver ban:
http://www.dogpolitics.com/my_weblog/2006/04/the_killing_fie_1.html

[staffilover]

dont worry there are no plans to ban staffies in the uk!

staffordshire bull terriers are now banned from council estates in dublin
along with english bull terriers, alsations, dobermans, rottys, american pit bull terriers...
anyone owing any of the banned breeds are given a week to rehome their pets into rescue or have them destroyed.
there is talk of this ban being brought in in cardiff too:mad:

[Roxy n Marlee]

My local RSPCA is full of dogs from Ireland! Does this mean more of them being placed down here :(

How does this help ?

[eski]

Just Look At My Baby .. I Must Of Been Stoped 20 Times By Police Asking My If My Dog Is A Pit And To Take Him Of The Street ,,,,,

[staffilover]

you're very lucky that they have told you to take him off the streets and not siezed him..if they do, dont sign anything, that is giving them permission to have your dog destroyed...

[IluvStaffys]

it stands for breed specific legislation...
if your dog is banned under breed specific legislation thats it... its killed
whether or not it has attacked or not.
thousands of loving responsable owners have had there dogs took away and
"humanely" killed.
That is terrible behaviour

[eski]

hi yes i know that is bad but this is his pic and you could get him wronng if u dont know about dogs ..... by his face .. and he stands about 17 in , tall

[staffilover]

oh he is lovely, looks like he has a bit of english bull terrier in him to me.

[bright eyes]

is there anyone on ere who as a staffordshire bull terrier

[bright eyes]

my breed of dog as been given a bad press but they r loving , playfull, loyal and brilliant dogs, great with people and luv children. it aint fair the way they av been portrayed

[bright eyes]

i aint a staffi snob and i own a staff. all breeds of dog including pitballs r as bad as there owners bring them up 2 be. u cant blame the dog for how it is its how flash the owners want 2 be seen 2 be.

[bright eyes]

years ago wen i ad my 1st staff and the pit bulls got banned i woz stopped loads of times by police. my vet told me at all times to carry their number with me and they gave me a id card for my dog jasper that woz signed by my vet stating that he was a staffordshire bull terrier. it was a sad time for pitball owners and i no sum people who had 2 av their dogs put down. lets get it right any dog big or small can bite but that dont mean they all will. any person who owns a dog of any breed should be sensible and responsible for the way they treat and train their dogs