Breeding Postponed due to Insufficient Dog!

[coco-bean]

I called the vet today and the doctor isnt happy with corona! Her poop has stopped being COMPLETELY firm for about 3 or 4 days...i say due to treats...doc says no! Her poop is more like playdough...
She has to have a biopsy of her intestine, which i can not afford right now!
The doctor says that it needs to be done ASAP but i just cant afford it...im still trying to get back on the feet with the last vet bills!
I know i shouldnt be worried about the breeding thing right now...HEALTH FIRST all the way...BUT, i've been told by breeders that you have to start planning a dogs pregnancy and breeding WELL before they(themselves) are even born. Im trying to do this by the book, but im sure people who breed hit hurdles like virus's and other stuff! I just hope this isnt life threatening.
I havent had corona all that long but i'd still be devestated if something life threatening occurs!
**wish us luck** but we still wont be having the surgery to remove the intestine for a while...Im hoping to get the money soon but i still dont think it'll be as soon as i want it!
I'd like to get it done before we go to michigan so i can be home with her while she is recouperating!
maybe in 3 or 4 weeks, i dunno though!

On a side note: this is for those of you who breed. When you come to a situation like this, what do you do?
Im a little up in the air with this and i have like a million things going on in my head! thanks for everyones help in advance!

[borzoimom]

Cocobean- a female has to be in excellent health to be bred. Remember- once bred- the female can become behind the 8 ball reallll fast!
I am suspect of a mild instestinal infection. Tell me- has your vet put her on a round of flagyl etc?? Or tested for coccidea...

[coco-bean]

Cocobean- a female has to be in excellent health to be bred. Remember- once bred- the female can become behind the 8 ball reallll fast!
I am suspect of a mild instestinal infection. Tell me- has your vet put her on a round of flagyl etc?? Or tested for coccidea...


I understand that dogs need to be PERFECT to be bred, but im sure if your dog eats too fast and gets sick on ur floor your NOT going to breed her because she ate to fast?
Im sure pups or adult dogs get into something their not supposed to get sick and still be bred, or developes a virus but with medication, it's treated and still bred! I mean that would be a perfect world...of course it'd be nice to be in a perfect world but we're not, so im sure these things happen, but the dog is still in tip top shape right?
i could be wrong, but i can almost bet a cold or something isnt going to call off a breeding all together right?
well anyways....I actually have no idea what flagyl is lol, can you explain it to me? lol
She's had two blood test done, one for her apendics(sp)?? oh crap i cant remember what the first blood test was for...ima have to go read my other post to find out lol duh me! lol
then the second one was for everything else...which they found a mild protien deficiency.
Steriod therapy is what she is on now...but the doctor says he wants be to discountinue the use of them for the rest of the week and see how she does...then call back to sched. the surgery!
arge...im distraught!

[Ceph]

but worms will because worms can kill the puppies...it sounds like that is what corona has and it sounds like that is what your vet thinks...

Colds can also be detrimental to your puppies as well. A cold can cause a dog to loose weight...and pregnant females usually need to be heavier because of the stress of pregnancy on their bodies. If they are not at maintenance levels than they are not getting enough nutrition or energy for themselves or the puppies....which can cause all kinds of problems...dogs have too short a gestation period...even in horses they worry about things like that...but thatis 11 months...you can do alot in eleven months...but the mare needs to be at higher weight before she is bred even then...with dogs you have two months and that just is plain not enough time to put weight on...or to mess around with health even.

And dont worry so much...corona will come back into heat in a couple of months...and then you get to start all over again :D

[applesmom]

The situation you're going through with Corona will most likely remove her from consideration for any future breeding plans.

Planning ahead for a breeding doesn't necessarily involve the dogs one owns.

Planning ahead means learning all we possibly can about the breed. The many types and lines that are the closest to the breed standard in all ways including but not limited to health, conformation, temperament, natural ability and trainabllity.

Much research into the above qualities of the parents and grandparents too,(at the very least) is a must for any ethical breeder. This knowledge cannot be learned (or taught) within the small space of one year. Owning dogs of a particular breed is not the same as active, hands on involvement in the breed.

To breed without the required research and involvement, particularly in a breed as popular as the labrador Retriever is to do a disservice to the breed.

With 41,132 litters of labs registered with AKC every year and thousands of unregistered litters being produced; every future breeder needs to do their homework in painstaking detail in order to protect the quality and integrity of the breed they love!

Once a potential breeder reaches the point where they know and understand the breed standard by heart and can feel deep in their heart that they know they will be producing the absolute best quality dogs possible--then it will be time to decide whether to breed or not.

[coco-bean]

dang i was really hoping this wouldnt take her outa the running...but she needs to be healthy most of all!
She is my little girl before everything and i just hope they can figure out whats wrong SOON! :(

[KatzNK9]

I'm sorry to have to agree here. You cannot responsibly breed a female who isn't the epitomy of perfect health & condition. In addition, if waiting to have a procedure of that nature is performed is a matter of finances, I have to recommend that you not breed at all.

I've had a single litter cost me over $5000 just to get through the vet bills and I've had a few more that cost me well over $1000 in vet bills. The result of the $5000 delivery & procedures thereafter was 2 healthy kittens that had to be hand-reared because the mother became very will after her c-section. Granted it was a c-section birth, and then an additional surgery because the mother became ill.

If money is an option EVER ... the choice to breed your animals isn't a very good one. I'm sorry, but I couldn't pass on this thread without saying that.

[coco-bean]

In addition, if waiting to have a procedure of that nature is performed is a matter of finances, I have to recommend that you not breed at all.

okay guys dont forget that corona is ONLY 5 months old...i do not plan to breed until she is AT least over 2 years old!
My finances will change by then...if not I HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM lol!
i have NO doubt in my mind my money problems will clear up in a few weeks...i just have to wait to get paid!
Trying to recouperate from $300 worth of vet bills takes about a month with the salary im on!
Im saving money so i can have a good breeding program!
But i guess my concern is...with the breeding, when other breeders come unto these problems so early in a pups life that they plan to breed what do you do? oh course fix the problem but is there anything else i can do to try and avoid these things in the future?

[Ceph]

It kinda sounded like you were breeding her now though when you said breeding postpones...I guess that is were the confusion comes in :p

[coco-bean]

It kinda sounded like you were breeding her now though when you said breeding postpones...I guess that is were the confusion comes in :p

lol sorry i needed something catchy!

[borzoimom]

I understand that dogs need to be PERFECT to be bred, but im sure if your dog eats too fast and gets sick on ur floor your NOT going to breed her because she ate to fast?
Im sure pups or adult dogs get into something their not supposed to get sick and still be bred, or developes a virus but with medication, it's treated and still bred! I mean that would be a perfect world...of course it'd be nice to be in a perfect world but we're not, so im sure these things happen, but the dog is still in tip top shape right?
i could be wrong, but i can almost bet a cold or something isnt going to call off a breeding all together right?
well anyways....I actually have no idea what flagyl is lol, can you explain it to me? lol
She's had two blood test done, one for her apendics(sp)?? oh crap i cant remember what the first blood test was for...ima have to go read my other post to find out lol duh me! lol
then the second one was for everything else...which they found a mild protien deficiency.
Steriod therapy is what she is on now...but the doctor says he wants be to discountinue the use of them for the rest of the week and see how she does...then call back to sched. the surgery!
arge...im distraught!
Coco- you have time here. She is young. Do what we talked about in chat- of a round of flagyl you get from your bet, and treatment as we talked about. She is way too young to say to " well it would be removed from consideration of breeding.."
Yes- you decide early who the sire is,- yes you decide what the male will bring to " your line".. but first she will grow up, and hopefully this will pass. My litter was planned along time ago- in times when she was not even in heat, so the beginning was just who is the best sire for the line, etc in making good puppies. She is only 5 months old-... first get her health straight, and as long as other things are in place with genetic testings - you are ready to go.. I would never ever breed a female that was behind- .. its too much stress- at 5 months old- you have plenty of time!

[applesmom]

The first thing you can do is accept the fact that these things happen!;)

Things to do to avoid these things in the future would be to keep your number of dogs down if you're planning to breed. The last thing a dedicated breeder needs is to start out with a houseful of pet quality dogs.

This doesn't mean that I have anything against pet quality dogs. However you (meaning anyone who plans to become a respected breeder) will eventually wind up with a houseful of pets. These pets will consist of promising puppies, retired brood matrons and stud dogs, possibly even returned puppies and rescue fosters. These dogs will prove to be just as well loved and just as much pets as the ones that were purchased that didn't live up to their expectations.

Join and become active in the local breed club and soak up as much information on the breed as possible. Meet breeders, watch and learn about their dogs, their success and failures. Keep tabs on how they raise and choose homes for their puppies, assist with whelpings, attend dog shows and performance events.

Once you've found ethical dedicated breeders (this may take a while) choose a mentor or two (or three) and listen carefully to what they have to say, always being on the alert for kennel blindness.

Once you've found a true mentor within your chosen breed that inspires complete confidence; then and only then, would be the time to decide on choosing your future breeding stock.

[Mahooli]

The way I see it is that if you didn't buy your dog with a view to breeding the best possible (and this would therefore mean you researched and bought her from a top breeder) then you shouldn't even be considering breeding her.
The whole purpose of breeding is to better the breed not to just produce puppies.
Becky

[skunkstripe]

I don't know about where you are, but where I am $300 does not go very far. Flea and tick medicine, checkups, heartworm preventative, the occasional run-in with a porcupine (not to mention cancer surgery) cost me $1425 in vet bills last year for my two doggies and I do not breed. It really sounds to me like it would be much better for your dogs if you wait until $500 means nothing to you, otherwise you may not be able to cope with an emergency.

[coco-bean]

The way I see it is that if you didn't buy your dog with a view to breeding the best possible (and this would therefore mean you researched and bought her from a top breeder) then you shouldn't even be considering breeding her.
The whole purpose of breeding is to better the breed not to just produce puppies.
Becky

i do already know that, thanks though!

and skunkstripe $300 in a very short period of time is alot to me. I know it doesnt go far but it got me, 2 blood test and tons and TONs of medicine that didnt seem to work...also cost of changing doggie food! doesnt sound like alot, but when it's in a week, thats alot to me! lol
i've had my 3 for less than a year and Im already up to 1,000! I'd have to get my check book out to do the exact math but i know it's 1,000...maybe even more! Just because coco seems to be "accident prone" lol!
in a year im very confident my finances will change...housing will change...possibly job(who knows) but i do know there's no way down from here...UP is all i wanna do! i have very high hopes and expectations for my finance increase and would NEVER think about breeding until i knew my finances were in exceptional order!
Thanks everyone!

[coco-bean]

Oh i just wanted to maybe clear up the reason for my lack of finances right now...
it's kinda personal subject but i feel you guys are my friends and understand!
About 2 years ago...right after i moved outa my dads house i found a lump in my chest...(my chances were low) but the doctor didnt want to take any chances with breast cancer on the rise!
Well i had the surgery ect. and was told all bills were paid for by insurance and my dad told me whatever bills werent covered by insurance that he'd pay for because i had just started college and knew i couldnt afford it!
Well i found out in Dec. of 2006 that the insurance didnt pick any of it up because i was 18 years old...regardless that i was a full time student and was still convered by insurance!
So i got a NICE hefty collection agency bill in the mail for over 3,000 bucks!
Turns out my dad had recieved the bills and simply tossed them into the trash because he thought they would magically go away.
well they didnt and now i am paying for it! with my credit not being so hot because of the agency i can not afford to buy a house nor a car(that i badly need)
So that is why i have a hard time paying for things that may NOT be quite so much to everyone else...but alot to me!
My goal is to have it all paid off by the end of the year...hopefully end of dec. or begining of jan 2008!
i know it's no excuse but i didnt feel as though this was my fault(with the collection agency) because i was told it was taken care of, so....yea...
i dont know anymore!

[borzoimom]

ohhhhhhh honey- God bless you that you are okay...

[coco-bean]

ohhhhhhh honey- God bless you that you are okay...
thanks bmom, it was a very stressful thing to go through just being 18! my oh my way it scary! But all is well, i still have a nice scar for a battle wound but all-in-all...i was okay and thats all that mattered!

[zoeybeau1]

The way I see it is that if you didn't buy your dog with a view to breeding the best possible (and this would therefore mean you researched and bought her from a top breeder) then you shouldn't even be considering breeding her.
The whole purpose of breeding is to better the breed not to just produce puppies.
Becky

i have to agree here to,you have to better the breed not make more problems for everyone else,:(
sorry if it sounds harsh,when i buy a puppy bitch for breeding and pet purpures she has to be from the best stock avalible at that time,with the abiltiy to produce the best pups avalible even better than herself,if i run into problems that need surgery then i will decide wether i should put her through the the breeding programme,it depends on wether the surgery is a life threatening on,or a simple proedure,then and only when shes the healthest shes going to be, do i decide and iv taken bitches of the programme for there welfare,

[Mahooli]

The thing that worries me was that you said that they were to remove part of her bowel. There is no way I would consider breeding a bitch that had had such major surgery. The weight of the pups could well cause a problem.
Becky

[coco-bean]

The thing that worries me was that you said that they were to remove part of her bowel. There is no way I would consider breeding a bitch that had had such major surgery. The weight of the pups could well cause a problem.
Becky
sorry i didnt do well with anatomy in school. Is the intestine a MAJOR part of the bowel? I know one of them carries the food to the bowel but i am unsure of which! I think i really need to start reading up!

[borzoimom]

Cocobean- any major surgery could be a big problem on the labor. I wasn't aware she had this situation. I would suggest alot of research, and even if the advice is hard to take, you need to listen to the vets. Most will tell you any abdominal surgery prior would be too much stress on the female when in labor. Personally- I would not breed her for this risk to her health. However- I am not the vet, nor do I know exactly what the operation was used for, and how extensive, or why it occured..

[Mahooli]

Sorry got wrong bit but regardless the removal of a part of the digestive tract would, in my opinion, render her as a non-breeder.
Becky

[applesmom]

This is all becoming a little confusing! In this particular thread there was no mention of removing part of the intestine but just, "She has to have a biopsy of her intestine, which i can not afford right now!" A biopsy is hardly removing part of the intestine and if the biopsy comes back clean the site of the biopsy shouldn't be a problem 2 years from now.

My reasoning for suggesting that Corona would most likely not be a candidate for breeding is the evidence of protein loss at such a young age. The protein loss alone could be suggestive of a very serious problem which the biopsy should be able to confirm or deny. If her condition isn't improving greatly by now--she needs the biopsy asap.

Coco-Bean I'm going to pm you a link to some information on why the protein loss along with her other symptoms could be a very real and serious concern.

[borzoimom]

I am confused too.. Protein loss can be several things - including liver function...

[coco-bean]

sorry for the confusion! but they must send in a sample of the intestine to determine anything! i know i have two threads going on about this, but i wanted to make a CLEAN/NEW thread on what is going on as of today!
I was wondering...when their is a biopsy of the intestine...what are some possible problems they could find wrong with her?
i mean not from the surgery in general, but when they do, do the biopsy-what are some things they could find wrong?
but what i do know is...if the biopsy doesnt find anything wrong...i dont know what to do? freak out? lol i dont know! I mean there can only be so much stuff wrong, right?

[borzoimom]

I am not sure what is wrong cocobean. I do know that femka had one when her pancreatic fluids showed up too high. Then they determined she has a spot on her spleen ( or something like that) indictating a blow of sometype sometime in her life. ( shivers- do not want to know what..) The vet thought it was since she has the obvious sign of having been the victim of a dog fight at one time or another-.. who knows.. She also had soft stools, and would get " stress diareah" for no reason. After placing her on thyroid medication ( no real clue why except that the vet said monitoring the thyroid would have the function of the pancretis to bowel flare ups- which it has)- it worked obviously.

The problem with what you are describing, is that since so many things, change the function of other things- ( thyroid, to pancretis to spleen to bowel...etc) it becomes a domino effect- and hard to say exactly what it is as I am not a vet obviously...
As far as breeding from a condition like this, remember something--.. YOU are trying to find out what is wrong with her- the owner of one of the pups might not.. As stated above, you could be saddling the owner of one of the pups with the same condition and they might not react like you are- ie trying to find out what is wrong. Their decissions could be uh not good ones.

I have had many "beautiful dogs" in my life time, that although the dogs were great in appearance, for medical reasons- looks aside- it would not have been good to breed them. The most obvious example I can think of, is one of my shepherds had only a "fair" in hips. She moved like a dream- however- being a "fair" only, to breed her would have increased ( not decreased) the chance of producing HD in the pups. I know its hard- but you have to put in your mind- this could be a birth defect- or a defect that could pass to her pups. When you have ANY DOUBT do not breed. Its just like me- if Galina had shown any low thyroid results AT ALL, I would not be breeding her- no matter how pretty she is- I WOULD NOT BREED HER.. And not just because of what the pups would get- but also obviously the stress on her of being in whelp. And one more example- Hottie. Hottie is just beautiful- he has a wonderful temperment too. However- injured as a pup, that turned into OCD from him throwing his weight to walk onto his shoulders, there no clear answer here of which happened- . Did he get the OCD of the injury, or was there a weakness that caused the injury which turned into OCD. Hottie was never bred for this reason. And he is just BEAUTIFUL!! There is always the question- what happened.. and when in ANY DOUBT what so ever- you do not breed..

[coco-bean]

thank you so much bmom! As well as everyone else, for being so helpful and understanding! ill keep everyone updated!

[coco-bean]

Bmom...im not sure who i've told about this but when corona was about 7 weeks old, my boyfriend thought he'd get corona used to the back of his truck(the box) and well he put her up there while he loaded the other two up! NO she wasnt going to stay up there...but to keep an eye on her...he did while loading! well i was in the kitched and i told him to take her down because she was gonna jump..
of course he didnt believe me, and when i saw her close to the edge i took off running out the back door to get there before she jumped...
i didnt make it down the steps..i was like 3 or 4 feet away and well she jumped...
she landed on her neck and the side of her face! I thought she was going to have some massive brain damage or eye damage because her one eye was rolling into the back of her head! She cried so loud...i was bawling, and hitting my boyfriend for doing that to her...putting her in the position to get her and she did!
After about 15 minutes(my boyfriend said she didnt need to go to the vet) she came outa it! she was up and walking ect. her eye was fine but you could tell she didnt feel so hott!
do you think that could have impacted this problem to make it occur?
Im gonna be SOOOO ticked off it it is...cause that could have been prevented if she wouldnt have been in the back of the truck!
It was not moving...but she was just so small, there's no way she coulda landed on her feet!
DUMB DUMB DUMB!!!

[borzoimom]

Honey- a blow to the side of the chest can make what Femka has.. It could be it.. Please keep us posted and I will put her in prayers!

[coco-bean]

Honey- a blow to the side of the chest can make what Femka has.. It could be it.. Please keep us posted and I will put her in prayers!
ill def. keep everyone as posted as i can!! :)
she didnt hit her chest though...i mean she landed on the side of her face(eye area) and her neck/shoulder area! i mean im sure falling that hard with all the pressure pointing downward...there was some pressure on the whole abdominal area, but not like a full blow flop on the side!
okay...well...im still NERVOUS!!! she's doing well right now though...pooping okay...eating okay(she's mad because we've reduced her food...i've kinda been feeding her a lil much :o ) but she's been off her med. since monday and seems to be doing great without it...!!