Aggression in Border Collie

[DonnaSim]

We have a 7 month old neutered border collie. He's a lovely affectionate friendly dog 90% of the time, however recently he has been getting very aggressive. This is generally when we ask him to move off the bed/remove him from a room or when he has a chew.
When I try to get him off the bed, I initially give him a verbal command which he'll generally ignore (though sometimes he obeys). I'll then touch his shoulder. This is the point the snarling and bearing of teeth happens. If I take him by the collar and move him he'll snap at my arm. He'll clamp down but not very hard.
As you can imagine this can be a bit intimidating and I'd obviously rather he wouldn't do this.
I've read that between the ages of 7 - 9 months, dogs go through a very sensitive time and that unusual behaviour should be expected and it will pass.
Is this true?

Thanks for your help

Donna

[Doberman's]

Do not ever allow him to snap, growl or bare his teeth at you, this behaviour will only increase if it is not curbed. He is establishung who is boss right now and to him it is himself.

Until he is going to behave do not allow him in your bedroom let alone the bed. If he starts to show signs of aggression at anytime,scold him loudly and have him lay down for at leasts 3-5 minutes so nto allow him to stand. Once he has done as asked praise him and allow him to get stand up.


Here is a article that will assist you in overcoming this problem. To view full artice please see link:


http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm



WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE?
A lesson in becoming Alpha

"My dog just tried to bite me! All I did was tell him to move over so I could sit on the couch next to him."
"My dog got into the trash can and when I scolded her, she growled at me. What's wrong with her? I thought she loved me!"
"Our dog is very affectionate most of the time but when we try to make him do something he doesn't want to do, he snaps at us."
What do these three dogs have in common? Are they nasty or downright vicious? No - they're "alpha". They've taken over the leadership of the families that love them. Instead of taking orders from their people, these dogs are giving orders! Your dog can love you very much and still try to dominate you or other members of your family.

Dogs are social creatures and believers in social order. A dog's social system is a "pack" with a well-defined pecking order. The leader of the pack is the alpha, supreme boss, Top Dog. He (or she) gets the best of everything - the best food, the best place to sleep, the best toy, etc. The leader also gets to be first in everything - he gets to eat first, to leave first and to get attention first. All the other dogs in the pack respect the alpha dog's wishes. Any dog that challenges the alpha's authority gets a swift physical reminder of just where his place in the pack really is.

Your family is your dog's "pack". Many dogs fit easily into the lower levels of their human pack's pecking order and don't make waves. They do what they're told and don't challenge authority. Other dogs don't fit in quite as well. Some of them are natural born leaders and are always challenging their human alpha's. Other dogs are social climbers - they're always looking for ways to get a little closer to the top of the family ladder. These natural leaders and the social climbers can become problems to an unsuspecting family that's not aware of the dog's natural pack instincts.

Some families encourage their dogs to take over the "pack" without realizing it. They treat their dogs as equals, not as subordinates. They give them special privileges like being allowed to sleep on the bed or couch. They don't train their dogs and let them get away with disobeying commands. In a real dog pack, no one but the alpha dog would get this kind of treatment. Alpha doesn't have anything to do with size. The tiniest Chihuahua can be a canine Hitler. In fact, the smaller the dog, the more people tend to baby them and cater to them - making the dog feel even more dominant and in control of his humans.

Alpha dogs often seem to make good pets. They're confident, smarter than average, and affectionate. They can be wonderful with children and good with strangers. Everything seems to be great with the relationship - until someone crosses him or makes him do something he doesn't want to do. Then, suddenly, this wonderful dog growls or tries to bite someone and no one understands why.

In a real dog pack, the alpha dog doesn't have to answer to anyone. No one gives him orders or tells him what to do. The other dogs in the pack respect his position. If another dog is foolish enough to challenge the alpha by trying to take his bone or his favorite sleeping place, the alpha dog will quickly put him in his place with a hard stare or a growl. If this doesn't work, the alpha dog will enforce his leadership with his teeth. This is all natural, instinctive behavior - in a dog's world. In a human family, though, this behavior is unacceptable and dangerous.

Dogs need and want leaders. They have an instinctive need to fit into a pack. They want the security of knowing their place and what's expected of them. Most of them don't want to be alpha - they want someone else to give the orders and make the decisions. If his humans don't provide that leadership, the dog will take over the role himself. If you've allowed your dog to become alpha, you're at his mercy and as a leader, he may be either a benevolent king or a tyrant!

If you think your dog is alpha in your household, he probably is. If your dog respects only one or two members of the family but dominates the others, you still have a problem. The dog's place should be at the -bottom- of your human family's pack order, not at the top or somewhere in between.

In order to reclaim your family's rightful place as leaders of the pack, your dog needs some lessons in how to be a subordinate, not an equal. You're going to show him what it means to be a dog again. Your dog's mother showed him very early in life that -she- was alpha and that he had to respect her. As a puppy, he was given a secure place in his litter's pack and because of that security, he was free to concentrate on growing, learning, playing, loving and just being a dog. Your dog doesn't really want the responsibility of being alpha, having to make the decisions and defend his position at the top. He wants a leader to follow and worship so he can have the freedom of just being a dog again.

[Doberman's]

Also this article, to see full article visit website:




http://www.greyhoundlist.org/nothing_is_free.htm





This method is a non-confrontational way of reducing/controlling/preventing dominance or dominance aggression in dogs. In my humble opinion, it's a HECK of a lot safer than the "Alpha Wolf Rollover" that the Monks recommend -- and I recently got a magazine that claims they no longer recommend AWRs because of the potential dangers when misused or used by inexperienced owners. And I'd like to see even an experienced person try to alpha-roll a 120 pound dominant aggressive Akita without getting hurt ... but I digress.

One thing that I like about NILIF is that it's adaptable to ANY dog.

[KatzNK9]

Good luck! I do hope the suggestions above help you. Very good advice.

[MoJo]

Oh my, I have never seen this in a border collie before. Is he pure bred? I am hoping so. Anyways, my husky gets this way sometimes, and the only thing you can do is to NOT let him think that his snarling is working! All he is trying to do is intimidate you, and every time you give in, it will make future problems even WORSE!! And, as you know, that wont be a good thing. If he is not biting hard, continue to remove him from your bed. Another way to (Gently of course) roll him over on to his side while he is snarling, and place your hand at tbe base of his neck with very gentle pressure. HOLD him there and then scold him. He has to know that he is not intimidating you whatsoever, or else he will continue to do it. By you doing this, he will realize that his antics are not working, and you are the boss. THEN remove him from your bedroom, and TAKE away the chew while scolding him! Once he is on his side, and he is being gently held down by your hand, and the chew has been removed, then slowly let up. BUT do not let him get up yet! Make him stay like this. This is a submissive pose, and by continueing to make him do this will show that he is not the one in control. Make sure to ALWAYS practise this when he has a chew. And.. the first time he lets you take it away without him snarling or acting up, give him ALOT of praise. Give him a treat. Give him back his chew. Pet him and play with him happily.. but as soon as he gets growly again, be sure to be persistant! Remember to use a deep tone when you scold him, and stare at him. Do not just let him think he can get away with this.

This is all in my own opinion, some may disagree. In no way should you actualy use too much pressure that it can harm him in any way.

[agilityk9trainer]

Aggression in BCs is becoming an issue here in the states. We're seeing more and more aggressive behaviors out of the breed. The good news is that if you work with your dog and seek help, I find that most of these aggressions can be dealt with. Most of the aggressive behaviors we're seeing are fear based aggressions, and they are found heavily in working stock. There are some well known lines that have this issue, and unfortunately, they are being heavily bred while the issue is ignored. The type of aggression the OP is discussing is "rescource guarding."

My advice to anyone seeking to purchase a BC is to really, really look into the lines. Actually see and interact with the parents and grandparents, if possible. Also watch the dogs interact with other dogs. How do they respond to novel situations? You'll want to really research before you pruchase these days.

[DonnaSim]

Thanks for all the advice. We've printed it all off and had a good read of it and tips are being used straight away.
When we attempted to remove something from his mouth, he growled lightly. I stood up and asked him to 'give'. He continued to growl lightly so I asked him to 'sit' which he did straight away. He reluctantly gave up the toy but because he'd growled, I asked him to lie down for a few mintues, which he did with no problems.
Tonight will be the first night he'll be locked out of our bedroom. He usually sleeps on his mat beside our bed and jumps up in the morning for a snooze. I guess this is wrong.
It should be noted that he's absolutely fantastic with other dogs and greets them in a very friendly and enthusiatic way and if the other dog gets too boisterous, he will always submit by lying on his back. He has never shown even a hint of aggression towards other dogs or people.
Thanks again for all the advice.

[MoJo]

I hoe everything goes well, and it dounds like you are already having a bit of success this early, so this is a good sign!

[DonnaSim]

Hi there guys, just thought I'd update you on the progress with Bob. I think it's me that the dog has a problem with because he's a lot more behaved with my partner.
Today when my partner was at work, I asked Bob to get off the sofa but this time he was in full aggression mode and snarled and refused to do anything I asked him.
I tried to be assertive without being aggressive, and repeated the commands. I then went to touch his shoulder (which I'm told is a dominant thing) and he snapped and bit my hand. He has broken the skin but I'm not bleeding though obviously I got a fright but tried not to back down. I persevered and got him to lie down and roll over but during this time he continued to growl and show his teeth.
Is my dog scared of me? Is this why he's being aggressive and submissive at the same time? I'm completely baffled by his behaviour and I really am miserable at the prospect of not liking my dog. :(

I am trying to reassure myself that it's a phase he's going through and that he'll relax and adjust to his place in our family.
He was perfectly happy last night not sleeping in our bedroom and I'm doing everything I can to keep him off the sofa which I know will take time.

Reassurance needed guys! :)

Thanks

[skunkstripe]

DonnaSim if you want reassurance, here it is!
You have already gotten some very good advice so let me make a couple of remarks based on this last post.
For now I would not try to take anything out of his mouth solely for the sake of seeing if you can. If it is not harming him, leave it be.
It sounds like he thinks he ranks higher than you and there is an easy way to change that. You control his food. If he does not submit to you, he is going to be a hungry doggy.
Next feeding time, have him "sit" while you put the food in his bowl on the counter. Put the bowl down in front of him, but if he starts to get up to get at the food, put the bowl back on the counter and make him sit. If he won't sit nicely for you, put the food away and wait 15 minutes or so. Unless there are serious aggression issues, this usually works wonders.
Good luck!

[DonnaSim]

I will definitely try this. I do always make him sit and stay when I'm feeding him so I will keep trying a this.
I can assure you from now on, anything I give him as a treat, he can have for as long as he wishes.
We're trying to teach him to stay off the sofa as best we can and he's staying in a seperate room at night which he's not bothered by.
I will keep trying!!

[skunkstripe]

Yes the keys to success are consistency and patience. You are in for the long haul-as long as it took for the bad habits to develop, well, that is how long it can take for the good habits to replace them.
And if there are setbacks, all is not lost. Dogs do not go from being 100 % one way to 100 % another way. It is more like they have good days and bad, but overall you see progress. So do not let the setbacks get to you. It does not necessarily mean you are doing anything wrong.

[ellewood]

Hopefully some reassurance for you - my dog is a border collie mix, and he also went through a phase where it seemed like he was testing my "alpha" status, but we got through it. Good luck!

[Greyhound]

I think it's me that the dog has a problem with because he's a lot more behaved with my partner.
He probably sees your partner as being above him, btut you are below him in the hierarchy.

Does your partner feed Bob more often than you feed him? The food provider is usually seen as being higher in rank than the dog.

If you partner usually feeds Bob, then you need to start doing it. Don't do it when Bob asks for it, but when you decide it is time to feed him. It is best if you and your partner have your meal first and then feed Bob. Do not feed him first.

Today when my partner was at work, I asked Bob to get off the sofa but this time he was in full aggression mode and snarled and refused to do anything I asked him.
I tried to be assertive without being aggressive, and repeated the commands. I then went to touch his shoulder (which I'm told is a dominant thing) and he snapped and bit my hand. He has broken the skin but I'm not bleeding though obviously I got a fright but tried not to back down. I persevered and got him to lie down and roll over but during this time he continued to growl and show his teeth.
This needs immediate rectifying. None of this behaviour is at all acceptable from your dog.

Is my dog scared of me? Is this why he's being aggressive and submissive at the same time? I'm completely baffled by his behaviour and I really am miserable at the prospect of not liking my dog. :(
If he is being submissive-aggressive, his ears would be backward and the snarl would pull his mouth backwards into a sort of 'smile'.

If he is being dominant-aggressive, his ears would be forward and the snarl would be at the front of his mouth, showing the front teeth.

I am trying to reassure myself that it's a phase he's going through and that he'll relax and adjust to his place in our family.
It might be a phase, but during this phase, you need to be consitent in your showing him who's 'boss'.

If he is an adolescent dog (I can't remember what age you said he was), he will test the boundaries you have set him and you will need to be firm about your position in the hierarchy and with the house rules.

[DonnaSim]

Greyhound, thank you so much for your advice. Generally when he snarls, he's very much showing his front teeth so it sounds like it's definitely a dominance issue.
It was my boyfriend that was doing all the feeding while I was at work. Now the roles have reversed and I am at home with the dogs more and control their feeding.
I always tell him to 'sit' before giving his food. Even when I put the food down I ask him to 'wait'. I then give him permission to eat. He's always been 100% with this and always waits till I tell him otherwise.
I did feed the dogs before us out of convenience but I've changed that and try to remember to eat first.
The advice has been invaluable and I'll let you know how he progresses.

Thanks

[Greyhound]

I'm glad the advice was useful for you.

It all fits in - your partner feeding them, feeding them before you yourselves ate, the age of the dog etc.

I hope it goes well with the 'retraining'.

Do this well, and you'll have a happy dog and be happy dog owners! :D

[Aussiepaws]

I delt with a dominant somewhat aggressive Aussie. One of the things the behaviorist told me to do was to practice 30 minute down stays on a leash. That meant the Zephyr was not allowed to get up unless I told him.

The first time he fought me trying to bite at my hands but because I had him on a lead I was able to down him using my foot close to the collar and lead clasp.

I would do this daily during the news and eventually after giving me a struggle for the first few days he'd just lay there and fall asleep. He got the message that he was no longer in charge. I would also consult a dog trainer to help you deal with this aggression problem.

Borders are extremely intelligent and once you establish the fact that your leader than Bob will get the message. Right now he should not be allowed on any piece of furniture.

[indie_girl]

I dont know if this is much more help than what has already been said but there is a great book called the dog listener by jan fennel its great with dominance issues, i think it could really help you! check it out and tell me how it goes!
http://www.janfennellthedoglistener.com/

[DonnaSim]

Hi there, thanks for the further advice.

We've got on pretty well with Bob over the last few months. He's definitely not as aggressive as he was but does occassionally show signs that he wants to be!
My boyfriend has done wonders with his training and is working on his heel which is going well (he's better heeling off leash that he is on, is this normal with all dogs?).
We also changed their food to a better quality one which we're convinced has had an effect on bettering his behaviour. He's also stopped chewing his fur which is a good sign.

To be honest, I think a lot of his behaviour had to do with my behaviour. I was frustrated with him and really didn't want anything to do with him for a quite a time. I've relaxed with him a lot and he has relaxed with me too so hopefully we're helping each other! :)

Thanks again for the advice.

Donna

[skunkstripe]

Thanks for the update! You're probably right about your dog's behavior being very much tied to yours-that is often the case and really one of the goals of a good trainer is to teach the owner how to deal with their dog. Glad you are making progress and good luck!

[indie_girl]

i hope things go well for all of you from here on!!

good luck with your beauiful collie!

thanks for the update!

[Aussies Rock]

Do you exercise your dog daily? I train with a few BC people. They say if they don't get out and play daily, they build up a lot of tension and possibly aggression. They BC was born to work hard. Working both their body and brain often leads to a calmer more relaxed dog.